Appropriate punishment for animal cruelty

[philcski]

25 years in a federal "pound-me-in-the-ass" prison (copywright Office Space).

[The Bid]

17 year olds do a lot of dumb things. Ive never killed or hurt an animal, but I would hate anything I did when I was 17 being held against me today.

Get them some professional help, make them pay some restitution, educate them a little on animal cruelty,and hope they grow up to be responsible adults.

F

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by The Bid

17 year olds do a lot of dumb things. Ive never killed or hurt an animal, but I would hate anything I did when I was 17 being held against me today.

Get them some professional help, make them pay some restitution, educate them a little on animal cruelty,and hope they grow up to be responsible adults.

F

There's a big difference between doing somthing ''stupid'' and being a flat out cold-blooded killer. I've done tons of stupid things in my life as a youth, but it didn't involve another living things death for my stupid, youthful pleasure. I hardly think 17 is a child, he was fully able to make the decision between right and wrong, he chose wrong. I can only thank God those weren't my horses, cause than we wouldn't even have to worry about what to do to them, their families would be planning their funerals.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

There's a big difference between doing somthing ''stupid'' and being a flat out cold-blooded killer. I've done tons of stupid things in my life as a youth, but it didn't involve another living things death for my stupid, youthful pleasure. I hardly think 17 is a child, he was fully able to make the decision between right and wrong, he chose wrong. I can only thank God those weren't my horses, cause than we wouldn't even have to worry about what to do to them, their families would be planning their funerals.

Believe me, I'd feel the same way...but honestly, when kids do cruel things like this, I think there has to be more of a reason than stupidity. While I agree that they need to "pay" for what they did...our culture's mindless emphasis on punishing behavior rather than addressing the causes of same are counterproductive. They are indeed responsible for what they did...but then what? We need laws protecting the defenseless, be they animal or human but we would be so much better off if such laws were not needed...closing the barn door after the horses run off only gets you an empty barn...the emphasis should be on education and teaching moral principles...the lesson these kids need to learn is not that society will punish them for such an act but that their conscience will!!!

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by The Bid

17 year olds do a lot of dumb things. Ive never killed or hurt an animal, but I would hate anything I did when I was 17 being held against me today.

Get them some professional help, make them pay some restitution, educate them a little on animal cruelty,and hope they grow up to be responsible adults.

F

it's a real shame that there are those that have more empathy for the criminals and or no sympathy for the victims.

if you don't know right and wrong at 17 you're never going to get it

[Gander]

If hunters wanted to be real sporting, hey wouldnt use guns, they would use their bare hands like Rambo. Their is nothing sporting about them. If you cant find another hobby to keep your life enjoyable other than killing animals, you are lame and should seek help. Bang!

[Danzig]

my big issue with all this is, if you don't want to hunt fine. but i don't see why anyone has to be so judgemental because they don't understand it.

how many of you like it when someone gets indignant about your enjoyment of racing and betting? does it bother you when you're judged for that? but it's ok for you to do the same to someone else when it's about a subject you don't like i suppose...

[Danzig]

and you all are aware that most money for wildlife management, for wildlife areas, comes from hunters, right?
did you know deer #'s are higher than during colonial times?
that members of the nwtf have brought wild turkey #'s to unprecedented levels. and no, hunters didn't almost run them to extinction-loss of habitat did. and guess who stepped up...yep, rotten hunters. the lot of them should be horse whipped.

[Gander]

Good question Danzig and believe me, I have lost certain "friends" along the way because of my devotion to horse racing & the gambling of it. I know many people think I am a bit of an oddball (aka loser) because I am not more interested in normal things like going to bars and playing in basketball leagues. To be honest I could care less about that, as long as I have respect from my wife and the few friends that count. Everyone else can say what they want.

I guess its because of the stereotype of horse player that one ses in OTBs. The bad rap hunting gets can also be attributed to the negative stereotype you see from hillbillies driving pick up trucks looking like they havent bathed in a longer time than the deer they are hunting and their badass attitude.

You arent erasing either one of these so if it means something to you go ahead and do it and dont listen to what others have to say. You only go around once baby.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

Good question Danzig and believe me, I have lost certain "friends" along the way because of my devotion to horse racing & the gambling of it. I know many people think I am a bit of an oddball (aka loser) because I am not more interested in normal things like going to bars and playing in basketball leagues. To be honest I could care less about that, as long as I have respect from my wife and the few friends that count. Everyone else can say what they want.

I guess its because of the stereotype of horse player that one ses in OTBs. The bad rap hunting gets can also be attributed to the negative stereotype you see from hillbillies driving pick up trucks looking like they havent bathed in a longer time than the deer they are hunting and their badass attitude.

You arent erasing either one of these so if it means something to you go ahead and do it and dont listen to what others have to say. You only go around once baby.

yeah, my daughter had her first go 'round the other day about racing. i think she was a bit surprised at what the guy said. i told her she better get used to it. it's funny, i've been a fan of racing for years and years, but only recently started into the gambling part. still a very tentative bettor. she didn't expect the automatic equation of horse racing meaning gambling-meaning sin! lol

and too true about getting one trip--at least, i guess that's all we get. altho i have said before that in my next life, i want to be a middle linebacker in the nfl.

[AeWingnut]

hunting is spiritual

and it is possible for Fruman to be a racist cop and for OJ to be guilty
regardless of the verdict

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

hunting is spiritual

and it is possible for Fruman to be a racist cop and for OJ to be guilty
regardless of the verdict

i think folks who have never gone would be surprised at how it really is. i can't count how many days i've spent in the woods this year. get to see some awesome sights. lots of deer, squirrels, rabbits-and a beautiful red fox.
and i can count on one finger how many deer i brought back with me this year. i'd imagine people think there are bullets flying and deer dropping like flies.
one morning alone, in about three hours, my son and i got to see about two dozen deer, turkeys, raccoons and we had a hawk fly right by us. beautiful morning, and not a trigger pulled. we had a blast sitting and talking and just being outside.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

hunting is spiritual

and it is possible for Fruman to be a racist cop and for OJ to be guilty
regardless of the verdict

It's also possible that George Bush is an alien and Kerry is really Lurch reincarnated..."being possible" is hardly grounds for a guilty verdict. The problem with that case was the handling of the investigation by the LAPD from beginning to end. The LAPD has a terrible rep in minority community and this was certainly not their finest hour. The prosecution team was overmatched by OJ's "dream team"...that's sad but then, how many times is an innocent person convicted of a crime because they had to rely on a Public Defender who was either overworked, inept or simply not caring? It saddens me that the rich can buy their way out of trouble and that's another topic (remember me...the alleged communist/socialist/anarchist?) but here...Furman handled key evidence...are you sure he didn't tamper with or plant same? I'm not! There were unexplained problems with the prosecution's time line, a glove that didn't fit, lack of key evidence, sudden appearance of socks...on and on!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I see what you are saying, but I think you are kind of misinterpreting what we are saying. It's not that I don't understand hunting, I just don't agree with it. I get the spiritual thing about being in the woods and seeing the animals, that stuff is great. So what I don't agree with is how you can be in the woods, see the animals and be moved by the experience and then either shoot one or take a shot at one. That seems odd to me.

i don't have a problem with people disagreeing. different strokes for different folks. i understand it seems odd to you, but it doesn't seem odd to me...also wish that the difference could be left at that, and not degenerate into name calling by some.
we're different. doesn't make one of us wrong, or one of us right.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Agreed and honestly I didn't see the name calling. You are right we all should be able to have a discussion without name calling. I didn't call anyone anything did I? I did a little drunk posting last night, maybe I should go back and read some things.

I know I don't personalize arguments....my issues aren't with hunters but with the mindset. In the past hunting was necessary, hell...even Wiccans pay homage to the hunt...our Lord/God often depicted with horns to signify the male role of provider (ie: hunter)...but today, the vast majority of folks don't have to hunt to avoid starving. As I've said before, you hunt to put food on your family's table....that's not only your right but your responsibility, but hunting as a sport??? Sorry, nothing spiritual about it unless you practice animal sacrifice as part of your religion.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Agreed and honestly I didn't see the name calling. You are right we all should be able to have a discussion without name calling. I didn't call anyone anything did I? I did a little drunk posting last night, maybe I should go back and read some things.

no, i don't think you called anyone anything. i'm willing to discuss just about anything, i just don't like when people slap labels.

but then, i really wish this thread hadn't got into all this. not sure the connection between abuse and hunting. they don't go together. plenty of abusers out there who wouldn't know one end of a gun from the other.

[Gander]

Arriving in their Toyota pick up truck armed with their Dad's guns...Sounds about right for down there.

These scumbags deserve nothing less than spending time in jail and getting raped. Then the deathe penalty. Losing them would be a gift for society.

I believe this is one of the traits of a serial killer... killing animals. So do we wait until they kill people??

[The Bid]

They are hillbilly country kids. Probably hunt all the time, probably disconnected with all animals, including horses.

Restitution, Community service, and some professional help is what should happen.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by The Bid

They are hillbilly country kids. Probably hunt all the time, probably disconnected with all animals, including horses.

Restitution, Community service, and some professional help is what should happen.

I like the sound of the death penalty better.