kip devile 9/2 vs. showing up 6/1

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by boldruler

Maybe clockers are more knowledgeable than my friend, but I rather have the $100K to put up for a stud fee than have $500 to bet on the third at Aqueduct. People that really know the horse business are on the breeding side, where all the money is. The money in the breeding game dwarfs the racing game.

But what does that have to do with Showing Up at this point?

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

But what does that have to do with Showing Up at this point?

I am with you Cajun. Maybe it was a personal decision he became a clocker. Who knows, but Showing Up in not going to win this race.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

But what does that have to do with Showing Up at this point?

My friend, the guy who said Barbaro would win easily in the derby said Showing Up is just an easy a cinch here. That was the point. It somehow got into how Oracle knows everything and everyone and is the master of everything. Nothing new here. As usual, he had to start with his calling people idiots.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by boldruler

My friend, the guy who said Barbaro would win easily in the derby said Showing Up is just an easy a cinch here. That was the point. It somehow got into how Oracle knows everything and everyone and is the master of everything. Nothing new here.

You brought up the breeding side of things though... I can definitely see how most of the money is in the breeding shed, but I will tell you this, without the egg, the chicken never hatches. Does that make any sense? Without the racing industry, the breeding doesn't survive. So, in a nut shell, you can't have one without the other.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

You brought up the breeding side of things though... I can definitely see how most of the money is in the breeding shed, but I will tell you this, without the egg, the chicken never hatches. Does that make any sense? Without the racing industry, the breeding doesn't survive. So, in a nut shell, you can't have one without the other.

My point was that people that really know horses tend to be more on the breeding/bloodstock side of things. They have to be, there is just much more money there. Someone like Demi Obyrne isn't a trainer, but a vet/bloodstock guy. Clockers are much less inclined to know how a horse will run first out on the turf than a guy who is on the breeding/bloodstock side of the game.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by boldruler

My point was that people that really know horses tend to be more on the breeding/bloodstock side of things. They have to be, there is just much more money there. Someone like Demi Obyrne isn't a trainer, but a vet/bloodstock guy. Clockers are much less inclined to know how a horse will run first out on the turf than a guy who is on the breeding/bloodstock side of the game.

Perhaps, but if you're comparing individuals, I would say it's a safe bet that Joe knows his stuff as well. Clockers as a general rule of thumb may not know as much, but I think that this guy Joe is more than your average clocker.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by boldruler

My point was that people that really know horses tend to be more on the breeding/bloodstock side of things. They have to be, there is just much more money there. Someone like Demi Obyrne isn't a trainer, but a vet/bloodstock guy. Clockers are much less inclined to know how a horse will run first out on the turf than a guy who is on the breeding/bloodstock side of the game.

Many of us in this game have high levels of expertise in very differing parts of the game. While using the generic term " clockers " there may be some truth to what you just wrote, but specifics are much more important, and relevent, to this conversation, and there are some, one specifically that comes to my mind, who probably has as good, and likely better, an idea of how a horse will handle the grass in a racing situation that almost anyone on the breeding/bloodstock side of things. Oddly, for that reason, many people on the other side are very interested in his opinions.

There are a lot of trainers who ask me my opinions of their horses, both generally and specifically. I don't presuppose to know anything close to what they know about training, but they also know that I may have a good idea about the relative chances of their horses, and I'm unbiased.

Originally Posted by boldruler

My point was that people that really know horses tend to be more on the breeding/bloodstock side of things. They have to be, there is just much more money there. Someone like Demi Obyrne isn't a trainer, but a vet/bloodstock guy. Clockers are much less inclined to know how a horse will run first out on the turf than a guy who is on the breeding/bloodstock side of the game.

How is taht exactly? Thats utter nonsense. Pardon me but now you are really clueless!! How could a bloddstock agent know better than an experienced trainer/clocker who actually SEES the horse WORK!!!!?????

[Gander]

Yes, talk of rich people is just completely boring and WE DONT CARE! I dont care if your friend has a yacht in the Bering Strait. Does it put milk on my cereal, nope.

We just want winners. Lets get back to talking about racing and horses in races, shall we. Save the boring talk of rich granny and her fancy english tea parties for people who actually care.

Originally Posted by oracle80

How is taht exactly? Thats utter nonsense. Pardon me but now you are really clueless!! How could a bloddstock agent know better than an experienced trainer/clocker who actually SEES the horse WORK!!!!?????

Well considering they are looking to buy the horse when he retires, I think he knows a little more about him than some guy who saw him 2-3x in the morning.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Well considering they are looking to buy the horse when he retires, I think he knows a little more about him than some guy who saw him 2-3x in the morning.

LOL!!! You can only know what you SEE!!! Are you suggesting that some of these folks you know have super powers to enable them to see what everyone else hasn't?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by boldruler

Well considering they are looking to buy the horse when he retires, I think he knows a little more about him than some guy who saw him 2-3x in the morning.

Ruler, as I'm sure you know, some of the greatest racehorses on the track didn't do diddly squat in the breeding shed. It would be my judgement that most breeding people are smart enough to look beyond a horse's race record and look at his conformation and bloodlines. Wouldn't you say that is correct?