Non-winners of an Eclipse or Championship

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Just for that, I think I might just start a "best horse through the first six races of his life" thread.

Why not just change your name to " The Redundant Drugs "?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Why not just change your name to " The Redundant Drugs "?

Come to think of it---an actual case could be made that Candy Ride was as impressive through the first six races of his career.



Running a mile in a world record 1:31 flat while winning a 15 runner Group 1 on turf by a city block. Running a mile and a quarter in 1:59 flat while winning a Grade 1 on dirt. And getting a two-turn mile in 1:35 2/5ths in a workout.

The horse he beat in his only American turf start came back to win a Grade 1 race, by five lengths, in course record time at Del Mar next out.

He seems like a 1st ballot lock with Discreet Cat in your "lightly raced paper-champion" Hall of Fame.

[blackthroatedwind]

Candy Ride was an awesome horse.

Discreet Cat also might be pretty good.

I was thinking of the ridiculously overhyped Smarmy Jones and the even more ridiculously overrated Not So aFleet Alex.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Candy Ride was an awesome horse.

Discreet Cat also might be pretty good.

I was thinking of the ridiculously overhyped Smarmy Jones and the even more ridiculously overrated Not So aFleet Alex.

"ridiculoulsy overrrated Not so aFleet Alex"? Let's see, he goes to his knees at the top of the stretch in the Preakness and finds a way to win and then puts up the fastest final 1/4 in the Belmont Stakes since Arts and Letters. Yeah, he sucked.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by FairPlay

"ridiculoulsy overrrated Not so aFleet Alex"? Let's see, he goes to his knees at the top of the stretch in the Preakness and finds a way to win and then puts up the fastest final 1/4 in the Belmont Stakes since Arts and Letters. Yeah, he sucked.

Thank you for helping prove my point.

When did I say Afleet Alex " sucked " or anything even REMOTELY close? He was a very terrific horse who ran one exceptionally good race ( the Preakness ). He did nothing on the racetrack to earn the accolades he received on internet boards.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Thank you for helping prove my point.

When did I say Afleet Alex " sucked " or anything even REMOTELY close? He was a very terrific horse who ran one exceptionally good race ( the Preakness ). He did nothing on the racetrack to earn the accolades he received on internet boards.

But didn't their stories warm your heart?

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Thank you for helping prove my point.

When did I say Afleet Alex " sucked " or anything even REMOTELY close? He was a very terrific horse who ran one exceptionally good race ( the Preakness ). He did nothing on the racetrack to earn the accolades he received on internet boards.

Couldn't read the English language part about the Belmont?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by FairPlay

Couldn't read the English language part about the Belmont?

In the Belmont he dominated a bunch of mediocre horses while running a very mediocre final time. If somehow you think his performance in that race defends him as a special horse I will have to disagree.

[boswd]

[quote=blackthroatedwind]Candy Ride was an awesome horse.

Discreet Cat also might be pretty good.

I was thinking of the ridiculously overhyped Smarmy Jones and the even more ridiculously overrated Not So aFleet Alex.[/QUOTE


I think Candy Ride falls into that whole Bernardini scenerio. What could have been. he got hurt I do believe but we'll never know how awesome Candy Ride could have been.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Candy Ride was an awesome horse.

Discreet Cat also might be pretty good.

I was thinking of the ridiculously overhyped Smarmy Jones and the even more ridiculously overrated Not So aFleet Alex.

Alex I agree on. Way overrated. Like I always say about Easy Goer, when Alex faced the two biggest tests of his career, the Juvenile and the Derby, he lost them both. At least EG lost to horses of quality. Alex lost to Wilko and Giacomo. Negative.

Now, Smarty Jones. I agree that the media added a lot to the hype with him being undefeated and all. But I don't think the hype was totally unjustified. There were racing industry people that also had jumped on the bandwagon, people with considerable experience and knowledge. I remember Bobby Frankel saying he was as good as we'd had since either Secretariat or Bid. When u've got a guy like Frankel saying it, and I grudgingly concede that he's been around a few more great horses than I have, it takes on more meaning than when I say it or some reporter says it. There were others that joined in also, in particular I remember Gary Stevens and Kent Desormeaux. The point is, I think there was some merit to his hype.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Alex I agree on. Way overrated. Like I always say about Easy Goer, when Alex faced the two biggest tests of his career, the Juvenile and the Derby, he lost them both. At least EG lost to horses of quality. Alex lost to Wilko and Giacomo. Negative.

Now, Smarty Jones. I agree that the media added a lot to the hype with him being undefeated and all. But I don't think the hype was totally unjustified. There were racing industry people that also had jumped on the bandwagon, people with considerable experience and knowledge. I remember Bobby Frankel saying he was as good as we'd had since either Secretariat or Bid. When u've got a guy like Frankel saying it, and I grudgingly concede that he's been around a few more great horses than I have, it takes on more meaning than when I say it or some reporter says it. There were others that joined in also, in particular I remember Gary Stevens and Kent Desormeaux. The point is, I think there was some merit to his hype.

Point Given is way overrated, too, because he lost the Juvenile and KY Derby? How about Native Dancer since he lost the Derby? Didn't know that the Juvenile and the Derby were the only quality tests.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

From a handicapping standpoint, Blackthroatedwind is right, as Afleet Alex and Smarty Jones are no better than the top three 3-year-olds of this season on form.

AA and SJ both had a lot of things to like about them though. Both were outstanding horses who outran their pedigrees. In Afleet Alex's case, I remain convinced that he ran the best race in three of his four career losses. Smarty Jones clearly ran the best race, albeit in defeat, in the Belmont Stakes.

Of these five horses, I actually belive Barbaro may have slightly been the worst of them on dirt. However, Barbaro was so freakish on turf, that he very likely would have won this years Breeders Cup turf, and probably could have gone down as all-time great on that surface, if never tried on dirt.

Here are the past performances anyway. Not very much seperates these five horses at all on form. Interestingly enough, of these five, only Discreet Cat will be around to see a 4-year-old season.

[mark2061mn]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Of these five horses, I actually belive Barbaro may have slightly been the worst of them on dirt. However, Barbaro was so freakish on turf, that he very likely would have won this years Breeders Cup turf, and probably could have gone down as all-time great on that surface, if never tried on dirt.

i know you are probably aiming this ludicrious comment at me mr wopS, but that's just too ridiculous to let pass by.

barbaro was only getting better as he got more experience running on the main track. while yeah, he was obviously an all time great (would have been) on turf, he was only making his 4th start on dirt in the derby, which as you know, is the first time he ever ran (turf or dirt) completely professionally and without any stretch goofyness. maybe in his first or second dirt race, he wouldnt have beaten smarty in the derby, but by the time he had put together his derby race, he'd have slaughtered at least afleet alex and smarty, and most definitely would have beaten bernardini.

how's emily?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by FairPlay

Point Given is way overrated, too, because he lost the Juvenile and KY Derby? How about Native Dancer since he lost the Derby? Didn't know that the Juvenile and the Derby were the only quality tests.

I've searched throughout my posts and don't see where I ever said those were the ONLY quality tests. I said they were the BIGGEST for those horses. Do u dispute that?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I've searched throughout my posts and don't see where I ever said those were the ONLY quality tests. I said they were the BIGGEST for those horses. Do u dispute that?

Accurately responding to posts is not a strongsuit of that poster.

Misrepresenting what you have posted, however, is.

[blackthroatedwind]

Gary Stevens AND Kent Desormeaux loved Smarty Jones?

I must have missed that MENSA gathering.

He may have been pretty good, and his Preakness was spectacular, but he needed at least one more terrific race to justify anything close to the praise he received.