Top 10 BC perfomances (last 10 years)

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

funny, i don't feel embarassed...

and thats not what i typed,
i said his performance was an average grade 1 WIN,
not that the BCc is an average grade 1 RACE,

we need to see past his cool blinker set and put his averageness into perspective.

he was not on the triple crown trail,
he was a sprinter that ran 3 or 4 routes in his entire life, and who took off months between these starts. this was before the detention tent too, i might add.

surely you cannot put this tiny career in comparison to the great horses such as secretariat, affimred, and seattle slew.
and to throw such accolades at an underserving horse such as this is a clear insult to those i afore mentioned.

These are valid points especially when comparing him to triple crown greats as you mentioned above. You were touting Pleasantly Perfect who also was very lightly raced during his 4 and 5 year old years which were his most productive. I believe GZ had 11 career starts while PP, who raced as a 5 year old also, had 18 career starts, 7 of them coming in MSW or ALW company. The point I am trying to make is that just because a horse was very unsound doesn't mean he is automatically overrated. PP only had 9 starts in his 2 best years while GZ had 8 so your stating that GZ took off months at a time is correct but so did a alot of other top notch handicap horses. Just because GZ wasn't sound doesn't mean that his complete domination in such fast times over so many distances are void. He was one of the best older horses we saw probably since Cigar (don't know if I am forgetting somebody) and toyed with the field in his classic win. BTW since your so into final times GZ ran his classic at LS in 1:59 flat and PP in 1:59 4/5 secs over a So Cal highway.

[somerfrost]

I guess Tiznow goes to the top of my list...I'd put both of his wins right there. The best BC race ever, imo, was the great Personal Ensign in the 88 Distaff overcoming the impossible and running down Winning Colors in the slop of Churchill Downs to retire undefeated. She obviously hated the track that day and was hopelessly beaten turning for home, yet by the sheer force of her will she caught a very good front runner yards from the wire...

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

These are valid points especially when comparing him to triple crown greats as you mentioned above. You were touting Pleasantly Perfect who also was very lightly raced during his 4 and 5 year old years which were his most productive. I believe GZ had 11 career starts while PP, who raced as a 5 year old also, had 18 career starts, 7 of them coming in MSW or ALW company. The point I am trying to make is that just because a horse was very unsound doesn't mean he is automatically overrated. PP only had 9 starts in his 2 best years while GZ had 8 so your stating that GZ took off months at a time is correct but so did a alot of other top notch handicap horses. Just because GZ wasn't sound doesn't mean that his complete domination in such fast times over so many distances are void. He was one of the best older horses we saw probably since Cigar (don't know if I am forgetting somebody) and toyed with the field in his classic win. BTW since your so into final times GZ ran his classic at LS in 1:59 flat and PP in 1:59 4/5 secs over a So Cal highway.

and while your comparison of the two track records is digestable and valid, it lacks a conclusion.
Pleasantly perfect who's Bcc time was 4/5th 's of a second slower than Gz's..this is true but,
PP enjoys to this day, spot number five on the alltime lifetime on track earnings list with 7.8 million dollars. the true test of worth, currency.
Gz, unfortunately does not bode to high on this list though.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

and while your comparison of the two track records is digestable and valid, it lacks a conclusion.
Pleasantly perfect who's Bcc time was 4/5th 's of a second slower than Gz's..this is true but,
PP enjoys to this day, spot number five on the alltime lifetime on track earnings list with 7.8 million dollars. the true test of worth, currency.
Gz, unfortunately does not bode to high on this list though.

And Perfect Drift has made 4.5 million while refusing to win races blah blah. GZ made 3.5 million in 7 less starts and was way less sound than PP. Money earned is great for the owners but for us bettors I'll bet the better horse not the one who has made more money over his career.

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

And Perfect Drift has made 4.5 million while refusing to win races blah blah. GZ made 3.5 million in 7 less starts and was way less sound than PP. Money earned is great for the owners but for us bettors I'll bet the better horse not the one who has made more money over his career.

PP was not more sound than Gz.
excluded form the BCc in 2002 because of bleeding issues, completely missed his 4 year old season due to leg injuries. don't make this about me and PP, this is about Gz and his overhyped ability.

by now you should have come into contact with the futileness of your argument and are starting to realize just what an average horse Gz really is.
so your next post will undoubtedly be attacking me,
since your arguments lack the credibilty you at one time thought that they had.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

PP was not more sound than Gz.
excluded form the BCc in 2002 because of bleeding issues, completely missed his 4 year old season due to leg injuries. don't make this about me and PP, this is about Gz and his overhyped ability.

by now you should have come into contact with the futileness of your argument and are starting to realize just what an average horse Gz really is.
so your next post will undoubtedly be attacking me,
since your arguments lack the credibilty you at one time thought that they had.

I just don't understand how you can call his ability overhyped when all he did was win at the highest level when he competed. I understand he was unsound and all that but when he ran he put on a show by dominating his opponets.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

and while your comparison of the two track records is digestable and valid, it lacks a conclusion.
Pleasantly perfect who's Bcc time was 4/5th 's of a second slower than Gz's..this is true but,
PP enjoys to this day, spot number five on the alltime lifetime on track earnings list with 7.8 million dollars. the true test of worth, currency.
Gz, unfortunately does not bode to high on this list though.

OK, so by "the mayor's" logic, Secretariat (you really should change your name on here too, associating yourself with greatness is laughable), Man O'War, Citation, Whirlaway, and many others must not be very good, because their career earnings will continue to fall on a list like that as purses continue to go up.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

OK, so by "the mayor's" logic, Secretariat (you really should change your name on here too, associating yourself with greatness is laughable), Man O'War, Citation, Whirlaway, and many others must not be very good, because their career earnings will continue to fall on a list like that as purses continue to go up.

The guy is completely clueless, and once backed into a corner he never says he goofed. Noone has ben consistently faster than Zapper was on the sheets. he was an incredibly talented horse who was limited to starts because of his issues with soundness. Not the horses fault. Anyone who would call him average just has to be sniffing glue.

[Gauchos0522]

I'm happy cause for a minute there I thought I was the only one that thought that GZ was completly awesome and that this guy was losing his mind.

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

I'm happy cause for a minute there I thought I was the only one that thought that GZ was completly awesome and that this guy was losing his mind.

That guy lost his mind a long time ago.

[blackthroatedwind]

I just don't understand the Ghostzapper knockers. At a time when every flash in the pan that appears gets randomly declared " great " Ghostzapper was a horse that dominated his opposition from 6 1/2F to 1 1/4 with eye catching ease and yet some people are grasping onto the " he didn't run enough races " argument. The Vosburgh, The Woodward, the BC Classic and the Met Mile were all Grade 1s, all at different distances, and he won them all impressively and in very good times ( and we're talking relative time here ). Plus, his narrow third in the King's Bishop, while coming from last, and wide, on a strong inside speed favoring track. If you are unable to see that Ghostzapper was something very special then your mind is clouded by undetermined personal animosity.

Ghostzapper was the goods....and he proved it conclusively a number of times.

Originally Posted by oracle80

The guy is completely clueless, and once backed into a corner he never says he goofed. Noone has ben consistently faster than Zapper was on the sheets. he was an incredibly talented horse who was limited to starts because of his issues with soundness. Not the horses fault. Anyone who would call him average just has to be sniffing glue.

i don't feel like i am backed into a corner.
and what would a day be without the keyboard coward of all time adding to the hysteria of displacing my credibility. sure my credibility is lacking here.

and only here.....

and that is due to oracle spending most of the last two years actively detroying my credibility,
because of his feeling threatened by someone whom he knows is threatening.
and why does a guy who picks as many losers as winners get the positive reaction he does ? because he actively markets his wins and glosses over his defeats, like singling Oonagh Mccool this past saturday, nice choice.

destroying someones credibility such as he has done to me, in the real world,would have landed him in civil court for sure especially if it had a direct effect on my profession.
but lucky for him he hasn't effected my professional credibility or he would need a lawyer believe me.

as far as the sheets go,
was it Deputy glitters they said to single in the
Belmont with three other under and pick him as a place under those three others.
the sheets are not gospel, just someones interprtation of how a race was run.
the drf imo, has more info on them and are easier to read. from waht i can see a 100 on the drf is equal to a 1 or 2 on the sheets. there is nothing magical about them.

and as far as the name calling, i seem to be the onlt one here who is not protected by the moderator.

i could stoop to your level and call you names, in response to yours, which i predicted would be forthcoming a few posts earlier, but i don't feel i need to.
you have your opinion of a frankle horse, i feel was doped before the bcc, and i have mine.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

i don't feel like i am backed into a corner.
and what would a day be without the keyboard coward of all time adding to the hysteria of displacing my credibility. sure my credibility is lacking here.

and only here.....

and that is due to oracle spending most of the last two years actively detroying my credibility,
because of his feeling threatened by someone whom he knows is threatening.
and why does a guy who picks as many losers as winners get the positive reaction he does ? because he actively markets his wins and glosses over his defeats, like singling Oonagh Mccool this past saturday, nice choice.

destroying someones credibility such as he has done to me, in the real world,would have landed him in civil court for sure especially if it had a direct effect on my profession.
but lucky for him he hasn't effected my professional credibility or he would need a lawyer believe me.

as far as the sheets go,
was it Deputy glitters they said to single in the
Belmont with three other under and pick him as a place under those three others.
the sheets are not gospel, just someones interprtation of how a race was run.
the drf imo, has more info on them and are easier to read. from waht i can see a 100 on the drf is equal to a 1 or 2 on the sheets. there is nothing magical about them.

and as far as the name calling, i seem to be the onlt one here who is not protected by the moderator.

i could stoop to your level and call you names, in response to yours, which i predicted would be forthcoming a few posts earlier, but i don't feel i need to.
you have your opinion of a frankle horse, i feel was doped before the bcc, and i have mine.

Dude, posting your opinion is fine, but backing it up with nonsense leaves you open for ridicule.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Dude, posting your opinion is fine, but backing it up with nonsense leaves you open for ridicule.

its not nonsense to me, DUDE ???

if you want to ridicule , go ahead.
as far as i can see you are the ones who are wrong.

but then again if i saw what you see i would be nothing different than you.
an opinionated name caller
i see what i see and so far in life my perspective and senses have done me just fine.
i pay my own way, make my owm picks and bet with my own money.

can you all say the same, namecallers ?

i see ateamvanity has joined the fray.

is your hair combed good enough to post ?

i don't dislike gz, i think he was an exciting horse to watch.
what gets to me is how you all want to dismiss the fact the PP was injured in thast race and was wide on the turn, you all seem to just gloss over these FACTS. and as well gloss over the fact that his time was not that stellar. how can you annoint the one and dismiss the other.

[zippyneedsawin]

1:59 flat is not stellar? NOW what are you talking about?

[ateamstupid]

Seems like you're the one calling names my man..

And GZ's time was not that stellar? LOL..

HE RAN 1:59 AND SET THE BCC RECORD! How much faster you want him to run for it to be "stellar?"

Pleasantly Perfect could've grown wings at the 1/4 pole and still not gotten within shouting distance of GZ, be real.

Originally Posted by Secretariat

i don't feel like i am backed into a corner.
and what would a day be without the keyboard coward of all time adding to the hysteria of displacing my credibility. sure my credibility is lacking here.

and only here.....

and that is due to oracle spending most of the last two years actively detroying my credibility,
because of his feeling threatened by someone whom he knows is threatening.
and why does a guy who picks as many losers as winners get the positive reaction he does ? because he actively markets his wins and glosses over his defeats, like singling Oonagh Mccool this past saturday, nice choice.

destroying someones credibility such as he has done to me, in the real world,would have landed him in civil court for sure especially if it had a direct effect on my profession.
but lucky for him he hasn't effected my professional credibility or he would need a lawyer believe me.

as far as the sheets go,
was it Deputy glitters they said to single in the
Belmont with three other under and pick him as a place under those three others.
the sheets are not gospel, just someones interprtation of how a race was run.
the drf imo, has more info on them and are easier to read. from waht i can see a 100 on the drf is equal to a 1 or 2 on the sheets. there is nothing magical about them.

and as far as the name calling, i seem to be the onlt one here who is not protected by the moderator.

i could stoop to your level and call you names, in response to yours, which i predicted would be forthcoming a few posts earlier, but i don't feel i need to.
you have your opinion of a frankle horse, i feel was doped before the bcc, and i have mine.

I never singled Oonagh McCool anywhere. I haven't called you names. You just accused Frankel of doping the horse in those exact words. I would suggest that Steve would much rather have unpleasantries exchanged then to have someone accusing a horse like Ghostzapper of being doped with absolutely no foundation or proof whatsoever on which to base the accusation.
You would never be teh object of ridicule if you only learned to do one thing, listen and assimilate. YOu obviously don't know a lot about the game but are attempting to learn. learning takes place when you listen to people who know more than you do about a particular subject and pay attention and think about it.
What credentials do you have in your long and illustrious career to dteremine which horses were and were not doped? You have accused many trainers of doing this, yet you offer no information or reasons to back this up.
The sheets DO NOT give picks. If you are referring to the Tg site then that is Jerry;s opinion. The sheets are like anything else, give them tyo 10 different people and they may darw ten different conclusions. They also arent the only thing to look at when attempting to figure out a race. There are about a million factors you can consider. Some more valid and important than others.
Paul, simply learn when to back off after you have made an errant statement rather than further looking stupid with continued baseless accusations.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I never singled Oonagh McCool anywhere. I haven't called you names. You just accused Frankel of doping the horse in those exact words. I would suggest that Steve would much rather have unpleasantries exchanged then to have someone accusing a horse like Ghostzapper of being doped with absolutely no foundation or proof whatsoever on which to base the accusation.
You would never be teh object of ridicule if you only learned to do one thing, listen and assimilate. YOu obviously don't know a lot about the game but are attempting to learn. learning takes place when you listen to people who know more than you do about a particular subject and pay attention and think about it.
What credentials do you have in your long and illustrious career to dteremine which horses were and were not doped? You have accused many trainers of doing this, yet you offer no information or reasons to back this up.
The sheets DO NOT give picks. If you are referring to the Tg site then that is Jerry;s opinion. The sheets are like anything else, give them tyo 10 different people and they may darw ten different conclusions. They also arent the only thing to look at when attempting to figure out a race. There are about a million factors you can consider. Some more valid and important than others.
Paul, simply learn when to back off after you have made an errant statement rather than further looking stupid with continued baseless accusations.

this is not the AP wire, just guys talkin like in the bar. can you explain to me why a horse would run through jhis abilities every time he runs to point of hurting himsalf.

could it be he couldn't feel pain while running,
could it be it took him 6 months to recover from the damage done while running doped ? because he had hisnerves deadend.

do you run beyond your strength to the point of not being able to walk the next day ?
not if your ruinning withour pain killer you don't.

so i feel the horse may have been doped.
don't act like some naive virgin who just saw her first pecker. the detention barns are there for a reason, to satisfy a need to keep the game clean.
well than it would stand to reason that the game weas unclean before that doesn't it.

[ateamstupid]

Guys, sooner or later, you'll learn to ignore "Secretariat." He just hates the horse so much, it clouds his judgment..

I've gotten into this argument way too many times, and everyone who knew me on the ESPN board knows my stand, but all I'll say is this..

G1 winner from 6.5-10 furlongs..

Won the Vosburgh and nearly won the King's Bishop with one of the most devastating kicks you will ever see (peep his N1X win too)..

THEN won the BCC, America's most prestigious race, WIRE-TO-WIRE..

Do you have any idea how unheard of that is? For a former stone-cold closer with an insane turn of foot to win America's biggest race on the lead?

Not to mention he won in 1:59 with hardly any urging, then ended Forest Danger's career in the Met Mile, which he also won all by himself..

The horse did whatever he wanted, when he wanted, and was simply unstoppable.

If you can honestly watch the Vosburgh, King's Bishop, BCC, Woodward, Met Mile, etc. and tell me this horse wasn't something special, you're either too filled with hatred - for an ANIMAL, no less - or you have no idea what a great racehorse looks like..

Like I said, sooner or later, you guys will learn to ignore blocky..