Top 10 BC perfomances (last 10 years)

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

well if defeating the world champion; who struck the gate at the start, and who retired post race because of that; and was strung 10 wide in the final turn, is indicative of a great winning performance then i agree.

but if given the above and winning by a few lenghts is an indication of just an average grade 1 win, i would agree with that too..

i still think everyone is just infatuated with his cool blinker set !

OK, now the BREEDER'S CUP CLASSIC is an AVERAGE grade 1.... stop now.. you're embarassing yourself.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

OK, now the BREEDER'S CUP CLASSIC is an AVERAGE grade 1.... stop now.. you're embarassing yourself.

funny, i don't feel embarassed...

and thats not what i typed,
i said his performance was an average grade 1 WIN,
not that the BCc is an average grade 1 RACE,

we need to see past his cool blinker set and put his averageness into perspective.

he was not on the triple crown trail,
he was a sprinter that ran 3 or 4 routes in his entire life, and who took off months between these starts. this was before the detention tent too, i might add.

surely you cannot put this tiny career in comparison to the great horses such as secretariat, affimred, and seattle slew.
and to throw such accolades at an underserving horse such as this is a clear insult to those i afore mentioned.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

funny, i don't feel embarassed...

and thats not what i typed,
i said his performance was an average grade 1 WIN,
not that the BCc is an average grade 1 RACE,

we need to see past his cool blinker set and put his averageness into perspective.

he was not on the triple crown trail,
he was a sprinter that ran 3 or 4 routes in his entire life, and who took off months between these starts. this was before the detention tent too, i might add.

surely you cannot put this tiny career in comparison to the great horses such as secretariat, affimred, and seattle slew.
and to throw such accolades at an underserving horse such as this is a clear insult to those i afore mentioned.

These are valid points especially when comparing him to triple crown greats as you mentioned above. You were touting Pleasantly Perfect who also was very lightly raced during his 4 and 5 year old years which were his most productive. I believe GZ had 11 career starts while PP, who raced as a 5 year old also, had 18 career starts, 7 of them coming in MSW or ALW company. The point I am trying to make is that just because a horse was very unsound doesn't mean he is automatically overrated. PP only had 9 starts in his 2 best years while GZ had 8 so your stating that GZ took off months at a time is correct but so did a alot of other top notch handicap horses. Just because GZ wasn't sound doesn't mean that his complete domination in such fast times over so many distances are void. He was one of the best older horses we saw probably since Cigar (don't know if I am forgetting somebody) and toyed with the field in his classic win. BTW since your so into final times GZ ran his classic at LS in 1:59 flat and PP in 1:59 4/5 secs over a So Cal highway.

[somerfrost]

I guess Tiznow goes to the top of my list...I'd put both of his wins right there. The best BC race ever, imo, was the great Personal Ensign in the 88 Distaff overcoming the impossible and running down Winning Colors in the slop of Churchill Downs to retire undefeated. She obviously hated the track that day and was hopelessly beaten turning for home, yet by the sheer force of her will she caught a very good front runner yards from the wire...

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

These are valid points especially when comparing him to triple crown greats as you mentioned above. You were touting Pleasantly Perfect who also was very lightly raced during his 4 and 5 year old years which were his most productive. I believe GZ had 11 career starts while PP, who raced as a 5 year old also, had 18 career starts, 7 of them coming in MSW or ALW company. The point I am trying to make is that just because a horse was very unsound doesn't mean he is automatically overrated. PP only had 9 starts in his 2 best years while GZ had 8 so your stating that GZ took off months at a time is correct but so did a alot of other top notch handicap horses. Just because GZ wasn't sound doesn't mean that his complete domination in such fast times over so many distances are void. He was one of the best older horses we saw probably since Cigar (don't know if I am forgetting somebody) and toyed with the field in his classic win. BTW since your so into final times GZ ran his classic at LS in 1:59 flat and PP in 1:59 4/5 secs over a So Cal highway.

and while your comparison of the two track records is digestable and valid, it lacks a conclusion.
Pleasantly perfect who's Bcc time was 4/5th 's of a second slower than Gz's..this is true but,
PP enjoys to this day, spot number five on the alltime lifetime on track earnings list with 7.8 million dollars. the true test of worth, currency.
Gz, unfortunately does not bode to high on this list though.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

and while your comparison of the two track records is digestable and valid, it lacks a conclusion.
Pleasantly perfect who's Bcc time was 4/5th 's of a second slower than Gz's..this is true but,
PP enjoys to this day, spot number five on the alltime lifetime on track earnings list with 7.8 million dollars. the true test of worth, currency.
Gz, unfortunately does not bode to high on this list though.

And Perfect Drift has made 4.5 million while refusing to win races blah blah. GZ made 3.5 million in 7 less starts and was way less sound than PP. Money earned is great for the owners but for us bettors I'll bet the better horse not the one who has made more money over his career.

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

And Perfect Drift has made 4.5 million while refusing to win races blah blah. GZ made 3.5 million in 7 less starts and was way less sound than PP. Money earned is great for the owners but for us bettors I'll bet the better horse not the one who has made more money over his career.

PP was not more sound than Gz.
excluded form the BCc in 2002 because of bleeding issues, completely missed his 4 year old season due to leg injuries. don't make this about me and PP, this is about Gz and his overhyped ability.

by now you should have come into contact with the futileness of your argument and are starting to realize just what an average horse Gz really is.
so your next post will undoubtedly be attacking me,
since your arguments lack the credibilty you at one time thought that they had.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

PP was not more sound than Gz.
excluded form the BCc in 2002 because of bleeding issues, completely missed his 4 year old season due to leg injuries. don't make this about me and PP, this is about Gz and his overhyped ability.

by now you should have come into contact with the futileness of your argument and are starting to realize just what an average horse Gz really is.
so your next post will undoubtedly be attacking me,
since your arguments lack the credibilty you at one time thought that they had.

I just don't understand how you can call his ability overhyped when all he did was win at the highest level when he competed. I understand he was unsound and all that but when he ran he put on a show by dominating his opponets.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

and while your comparison of the two track records is digestable and valid, it lacks a conclusion.
Pleasantly perfect who's Bcc time was 4/5th 's of a second slower than Gz's..this is true but,
PP enjoys to this day, spot number five on the alltime lifetime on track earnings list with 7.8 million dollars. the true test of worth, currency.
Gz, unfortunately does not bode to high on this list though.

OK, so by "the mayor's" logic, Secretariat (you really should change your name on here too, associating yourself with greatness is laughable), Man O'War, Citation, Whirlaway, and many others must not be very good, because their career earnings will continue to fall on a list like that as purses continue to go up.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

OK, so by "the mayor's" logic, Secretariat (you really should change your name on here too, associating yourself with greatness is laughable), Man O'War, Citation, Whirlaway, and many others must not be very good, because their career earnings will continue to fall on a list like that as purses continue to go up.

The guy is completely clueless, and once backed into a corner he never says he goofed. Noone has ben consistently faster than Zapper was on the sheets. he was an incredibly talented horse who was limited to starts because of his issues with soundness. Not the horses fault. Anyone who would call him average just has to be sniffing glue.

[Gauchos0522]

I'm happy cause for a minute there I thought I was the only one that thought that GZ was completly awesome and that this guy was losing his mind.

Originally Posted by oracle80

The guy is completely clueless, and once backed into a corner he never says he goofed. Noone has ben consistently faster than Zapper was on the sheets. he was an incredibly talented horse who was limited to starts because of his issues with soundness. Not the horses fault. Anyone who would call him average just has to be sniffing glue.

i don't feel like i am backed into a corner.
and what would a day be without the keyboard coward of all time adding to the hysteria of displacing my credibility. sure my credibility is lacking here.

and only here.....

and that is due to oracle spending most of the last two years actively detroying my credibility,
because of his feeling threatened by someone whom he knows is threatening.
and why does a guy who picks as many losers as winners get the positive reaction he does ? because he actively markets his wins and glosses over his defeats, like singling Oonagh Mccool this past saturday, nice choice.

destroying someones credibility such as he has done to me, in the real world,would have landed him in civil court for sure especially if it had a direct effect on my profession.
but lucky for him he hasn't effected my professional credibility or he would need a lawyer believe me.

as far as the sheets go,
was it Deputy glitters they said to single in the
Belmont with three other under and pick him as a place under those three others.
the sheets are not gospel, just someones interprtation of how a race was run.
the drf imo, has more info on them and are easier to read. from waht i can see a 100 on the drf is equal to a 1 or 2 on the sheets. there is nothing magical about them.

and as far as the name calling, i seem to be the onlt one here who is not protected by the moderator.

i could stoop to your level and call you names, in response to yours, which i predicted would be forthcoming a few posts earlier, but i don't feel i need to.
you have your opinion of a frankle horse, i feel was doped before the bcc, and i have mine.

[ateamstupid]

Guys, sooner or later, you'll learn to ignore "Secretariat." He just hates the horse so much, it clouds his judgment..

I've gotten into this argument way too many times, and everyone who knew me on the ESPN board knows my stand, but all I'll say is this..

G1 winner from 6.5-10 furlongs..

Won the Vosburgh and nearly won the King's Bishop with one of the most devastating kicks you will ever see (peep his N1X win too)..

THEN won the BCC, America's most prestigious race, WIRE-TO-WIRE..

Do you have any idea how unheard of that is? For a former stone-cold closer with an insane turn of foot to win America's biggest race on the lead?

Not to mention he won in 1:59 with hardly any urging, then ended Forest Danger's career in the Met Mile, which he also won all by himself..

The horse did whatever he wanted, when he wanted, and was simply unstoppable.

If you can honestly watch the Vosburgh, King's Bishop, BCC, Woodward, Met Mile, etc. and tell me this horse wasn't something special, you're either too filled with hatred - for an ANIMAL, no less - or you have no idea what a great racehorse looks like..

Like I said, sooner or later, you guys will learn to ignore blocky..

[Bigsmc]

Johannesburg in '01 would be in my top 10.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

funny, i don't feel embarassed...

and thats not what i typed,
i said his performance was an average grade 1 WIN,
not that the BCc is an average grade 1 RACE,

we need to see past his cool blinker set and put his averageness into perspective.

he was not on the triple crown trail,
he was a sprinter that ran 3 or 4 routes in his entire life, and who took off months between these starts. this was before the detention tent too, i might add.

surely you cannot put this tiny career in comparison to the great horses such as secretariat, affimred, and seattle slew.
and to throw such accolades at an underserving horse such as this is a clear insult to those i afore mentioned.

What does "average grade 1 win" mean? I think any trainer would have taken that "average grade 1 win" for any race at any time(expect maybe against Secretariat at the Belmont!) Besides, no one is comparing him to all time greats on this thread, just his performance in the BC.. you can't seem to see past your bias against GZ to appreciate his extraordinary talent.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

What does "average grade 1 win" mean? I think any trainer would have taken that "average grade 1 win" for any race at any time(expect maybe against Secretariat at the Belmont!) Besides, no one is comparing him to all time greats on this thread, just his performance in the BC.. you can't seem to see past your bias against GZ to appreciate his extraordinary talent.

If you have trouble putting "average grade 1 " into perspective, perhaps you should watch more races and develop an understanding for yourself.

he had no extra oridinary talent, my whole point,
just a lot of hype from people who look anywhere for a hero, deserving of the accolade or not.

the horse was NO where near triple crown ability,
at 3, or 4. he was just overhyped by people looking for an escape, and there was Gz. well lets pick him, he has cool headgear, nothing more to it than that.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

If you have trouble putting "average grade 1 " into perspective, perhaps you should watch more races and develop an understanding for yourself.

he had no extra oridinary talent, my whole point,
just a lot of hype from people who look anywhere for a hero, deserving of the accolade or not.

the horse was NO where near triple crown ability,
at 3, or 4. he was just overhyped by people looking for an escape, and there was Gz. well lets pick him, he has cool headgear, nothing more to it than that.

No one said anything about him being triple crown ability or anything associated with the triple crown. This horse completley dominated especially in his 4 year old season with the only race he almost was beat was when saint liam took him 15 wide into the turn in the woodward. Saint Liam was so spent form that effort he skipped the classic also! GZ went on to demolish a field at the BC including your beloved PP. This statement about his blinkers is a complete joke. He was dominanant even when he was beaten he was spectacular. Look at his King's Bishop as a 3 year old.

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

No one said anything about him being triple crown ability or anything associated with the triple crown. This horse completley dominated especially in his 4 year old season with the only race he almost was beat was when saint liam took him 15 wide into the turn in the woodward. Saint Liam was so spent form that effort he skipped the classic also! GZ went on to demolish a field at the BC including your beloved PP. This statement about his blinkers is a complete joke. He was dominanant even when he was beaten he was spectacular. Look at his King's Bishop as a 3 year old.

what season, ?? huh ??

three races hardly makes a season,
just a fragile horse that could or could not have been doped before the Bcc because no one was testing then. and the statement about his blinkers is dead on right. in dealing with the public thats about how far as they can see.

i like the 4 horse, i like his headgear, i will bet him.. gee he won, he is the greatest.
see the 4 horse, he is a pretty horse, he is the greatest. jeez you give too much credit to the mind
of the general bettor.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

what season, ?? huh ??

three races hardly makes a season,
just a fragile horse that could or could not have been doped before the Bcc because no one was testing then. and the statement about his blinkers is dead on right. in dealing with the public thats about how far as they can see.

i like the 4 horse, i like his headgear, i will bet him.. gee he won, he is the greatest.
see the 4 horse, he is a pretty horse, he is the greatest. jeez you give too much credit to the mind
of the general bettor.

"Few horses have devastated their opponents in so many ways, at so many distances, and in such fast times."--Steve Haskin
I don't know about you but along with Crist, Haskin is one of the most highly regarded writers/fans of the buisness. He states it perfectly....the horse completley dominated.

[Thunder Gulch]

Couple that haven't been mentioned.

Tiznow out gaming Sakhee
Banks Hill dominating the F&M
Kona Gold's track record at Churchill