Top 10 BC perfomances (last 10 years)

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

No the "zapper" was not all that and a bag of chips.
he was a good horse that raced what, maybe 7 times.
hardly a career i would call outstanding, and his time in the BCC 2005 was no different than Pleasantly Perfects a year earlier, but for some reason, because it was mandella's horse or because it was a west coast horse winning the Bcc in Ca he gets overlokked.
PP's effort in the world cup, imo, is more impressive than a cranked up GZ's who ran once after that, and only once.

also missing from the list is the win by 31 lenghts,
nuff said about that one , i would think.

also how can you exclude Mineshaft and Perfect drift trading jumps in the eye to eye dual in the S foster 2003.
a remarkable effort from the current leader in lifetime earnings, in handing the horse of the year, minseshaft a defeat in his championship year !

It's top 10 Breeders' Cup preformances so mineshaft & PD Stephen Foster is not a breeders' cup race. And Ghostzapper was unbelievable and that 1 race after the classic was a 6 length win in the Met Mile in 1:33 off a 5 and a half month layoff. And he had an outstanding carrer from 6 1/2f to 10f he was so dominant it was almost unfair. His classic he just laughed at Roses In May when he moved close to him and destroyed that field.

[zippyneedsawin]

Ghostzapper's performance was great. Period.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Ghostzapper's performance was great. Period.

Ooppsss--it is also in the past 10 years. Sorry about that.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Ghostzapper's performance was great. Period.

well if defeating the world champion; who struck the gate at the start, and who retired post race because of that; and was strung 10 wide in the final turn, is indicative of a great winning performance then i agree.

but if given the above and winning by a few lenghts is an indication of just an average grade 1 win, i would agree with that too..

i still think everyone is just infatuated with his cool blinker set !

I think Ghostzapper is the most overrated horse in the past to years. Granted he was a great horse, but he really didnt do anything spectacular to warrant such high accolades.

[JJP]

I agree Rock of Gibraltar was probably the best losing performance.

Best ones ever?
Classic- Sunday Silence beating Easy Goer in 89 and Skip Away beating a tremendous field in 1997.

Turf- Manila. Hands down the deepest group of turfers I've ever seen in the BC. Theatrical, the turf champion the following year was in there, as was Dancing Brave, who was supposed to be the best British horse in 25 years. And filly champ/Arlington Million winner Estrapade was in there also.

Mile- Lure and Miesque. Lure had to overcome the 14 hole to win his second and Miesque showed her versatility, winning her first Mile on rock hard ground then taking her second over a bog like surface.

Juvenile- Even though he was a bust as a 3YO, the move Arazi put on in the 1991 Juvenile was monsterous.

Juvenile Fillies- I'll take the recently deceased Countess Diana

Sprint- Going to go with Safely Kept- Dayjur was supposed to be the best sprinter in Europe in years, and he probably would've won the Sprint had he not jumped a shadow. 3rd in the race? None other than Black Tie Affair, who would go on to be Horse of the Year the following year.

F/M Turf- Ouija Board- was dominant in 2004 and while not as sharp in 2005 came fairly close to repeating as Intercontinental was allowed to lope along on an easy uncontested lead.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

I agree Rock of Gibraltar was probably the best losing performance.

Best ones ever?
Classic- Sunday Silence beating Easy Goer in 89 and Skip Away beating a tremendous field in 1997.

Turf- Manila. Hands down the deepest group of turfers I've ever seen in the BC. Theatrical, the turf champion the following year was in there, as was Dancing Brave, who was supposed to be the best British horse in 25 years. And filly champ/Arlington Million winner Estrapade was in there also.

Mile- Lure and Miesque. Lure had to overcome the 14 hole to win his second and Miesque showed her versatility, winning her first Mile on rock hard ground then taking her second over a bog like surface.

Juvenile- Even though he was a bust as a 3YO, the move Arazi put on in the 1991 Juvenile was monsterous.

Juvenile Fillies- I'll take the recently deceased Countess Diana

Sprint- Going to go with Safely Kept- Dayjur was supposed to be the best sprinter in Europe in years, and he probably would've won the Sprint had he not jumped a shadow. 3rd in the race? None other than Black Tie Affair, who would go on to be Horse of the Year the following year.

F/M Turf- Ouija Board- was dominant in 2004 and while not as sharp in 2005 came fairly close to repeating as Intercontinental was allowed to lope along on an easy uncontested lead.

A couple of things. Dayjur wouldn't " probably " have won, he WOULD have won, as the race was OVER.

Can't name them offhand, though for some reason I think the field was so bad that Deputy Commander took a reasonable amount of money, but the field Skip Away beat in 1997 was not " tremendous ", and may have been much closer to the worst Classic field ever. Perhaps you are thinking of the 1998 field, which was excellent, and Skip Away ran well, but lost.

As for Dancing Brave, and this is no slight to the winner, and others you mentioned, as they were VERY good, but he shipped extemely poorly and looked very bad that day. He simply did not run anything close to his race.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

A couple of things. Dayjur wouldn't " probably " have won, he WOULD have won, as the race was OVER.

Can't name them offhand, though for some reason I think the field was so bad that Deputy Commander took a reasonable amount of money, but the field Skip Away beat in 1997 was not " tremendous ", and may have been much closer to the worst Classic field ever. Perhaps you are thinking of the 1998 field, which was excellent, and Skip Away ran well, but lost.

As for Dancing Brave, and this is no slight to the winner, and others you mentioned, as they were VERY good, but he shipped extemely poorly and looked very bad that day. He simply did not run anything close to his race.

In retrospect, I think you are correct. Actually both 1996 and 1998 were very strong; what happened to all the big fig horses in 1997? Horses like Formal Gold must not've been in the race. In 96, Cigar could only manage third behind Alphabet Soup and Louie Quatorze. In 98 it was Awesome Again-Silver Charm-Swain. It was Swain's dirt debut but he was a very high quality European. Like Dayjur, Swain should've won the 1998 Classic. The 2000 Classic was pretty solid also. Other than Cigar, the 1995 Classic might've been the worst.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

well if defeating the world champion; who struck the gate at the start, and who retired post race because of that; and was strung 10 wide in the final turn, is indicative of a great winning performance then i agree.

but if given the above and winning by a few lenghts is an indication of just an average grade 1 win, i would agree with that too..

i still think everyone is just infatuated with his cool blinker set !

OK, now the BREEDER'S CUP CLASSIC is an AVERAGE grade 1.... stop now.. you're embarassing yourself.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

OK, now the BREEDER'S CUP CLASSIC is an AVERAGE grade 1.... stop now.. you're embarassing yourself.

funny, i don't feel embarassed...

and thats not what i typed,
i said his performance was an average grade 1 WIN,
not that the BCc is an average grade 1 RACE,

we need to see past his cool blinker set and put his averageness into perspective.

he was not on the triple crown trail,
he was a sprinter that ran 3 or 4 routes in his entire life, and who took off months between these starts. this was before the detention tent too, i might add.

surely you cannot put this tiny career in comparison to the great horses such as secretariat, affimred, and seattle slew.
and to throw such accolades at an underserving horse such as this is a clear insult to those i afore mentioned.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

funny, i don't feel embarassed...

and thats not what i typed,
i said his performance was an average grade 1 WIN,
not that the BCc is an average grade 1 RACE,

we need to see past his cool blinker set and put his averageness into perspective.

he was not on the triple crown trail,
he was a sprinter that ran 3 or 4 routes in his entire life, and who took off months between these starts. this was before the detention tent too, i might add.

surely you cannot put this tiny career in comparison to the great horses such as secretariat, affimred, and seattle slew.
and to throw such accolades at an underserving horse such as this is a clear insult to those i afore mentioned.

These are valid points especially when comparing him to triple crown greats as you mentioned above. You were touting Pleasantly Perfect who also was very lightly raced during his 4 and 5 year old years which were his most productive. I believe GZ had 11 career starts while PP, who raced as a 5 year old also, had 18 career starts, 7 of them coming in MSW or ALW company. The point I am trying to make is that just because a horse was very unsound doesn't mean he is automatically overrated. PP only had 9 starts in his 2 best years while GZ had 8 so your stating that GZ took off months at a time is correct but so did a alot of other top notch handicap horses. Just because GZ wasn't sound doesn't mean that his complete domination in such fast times over so many distances are void. He was one of the best older horses we saw probably since Cigar (don't know if I am forgetting somebody) and toyed with the field in his classic win. BTW since your so into final times GZ ran his classic at LS in 1:59 flat and PP in 1:59 4/5 secs over a So Cal highway.

[somerfrost]

I guess Tiznow goes to the top of my list...I'd put both of his wins right there. The best BC race ever, imo, was the great Personal Ensign in the 88 Distaff overcoming the impossible and running down Winning Colors in the slop of Churchill Downs to retire undefeated. She obviously hated the track that day and was hopelessly beaten turning for home, yet by the sheer force of her will she caught a very good front runner yards from the wire...

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

These are valid points especially when comparing him to triple crown greats as you mentioned above. You were touting Pleasantly Perfect who also was very lightly raced during his 4 and 5 year old years which were his most productive. I believe GZ had 11 career starts while PP, who raced as a 5 year old also, had 18 career starts, 7 of them coming in MSW or ALW company. The point I am trying to make is that just because a horse was very unsound doesn't mean he is automatically overrated. PP only had 9 starts in his 2 best years while GZ had 8 so your stating that GZ took off months at a time is correct but so did a alot of other top notch handicap horses. Just because GZ wasn't sound doesn't mean that his complete domination in such fast times over so many distances are void. He was one of the best older horses we saw probably since Cigar (don't know if I am forgetting somebody) and toyed with the field in his classic win. BTW since your so into final times GZ ran his classic at LS in 1:59 flat and PP in 1:59 4/5 secs over a So Cal highway.

and while your comparison of the two track records is digestable and valid, it lacks a conclusion.
Pleasantly perfect who's Bcc time was 4/5th 's of a second slower than Gz's..this is true but,
PP enjoys to this day, spot number five on the alltime lifetime on track earnings list with 7.8 million dollars. the true test of worth, currency.
Gz, unfortunately does not bode to high on this list though.

[Bigsmc]

Johannesburg in '01 would be in my top 10.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

funny, i don't feel embarassed...

and thats not what i typed,
i said his performance was an average grade 1 WIN,
not that the BCc is an average grade 1 RACE,

we need to see past his cool blinker set and put his averageness into perspective.

he was not on the triple crown trail,
he was a sprinter that ran 3 or 4 routes in his entire life, and who took off months between these starts. this was before the detention tent too, i might add.

surely you cannot put this tiny career in comparison to the great horses such as secretariat, affimred, and seattle slew.
and to throw such accolades at an underserving horse such as this is a clear insult to those i afore mentioned.

What does "average grade 1 win" mean? I think any trainer would have taken that "average grade 1 win" for any race at any time(expect maybe against Secretariat at the Belmont!) Besides, no one is comparing him to all time greats on this thread, just his performance in the BC.. you can't seem to see past your bias against GZ to appreciate his extraordinary talent.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

What does "average grade 1 win" mean? I think any trainer would have taken that "average grade 1 win" for any race at any time(expect maybe against Secretariat at the Belmont!) Besides, no one is comparing him to all time greats on this thread, just his performance in the BC.. you can't seem to see past your bias against GZ to appreciate his extraordinary talent.

If you have trouble putting "average grade 1 " into perspective, perhaps you should watch more races and develop an understanding for yourself.

he had no extra oridinary talent, my whole point,
just a lot of hype from people who look anywhere for a hero, deserving of the accolade or not.

the horse was NO where near triple crown ability,
at 3, or 4. he was just overhyped by people looking for an escape, and there was Gz. well lets pick him, he has cool headgear, nothing more to it than that.

[Thunder Gulch]

Couple that haven't been mentioned.

Tiznow out gaming Sakhee
Banks Hill dominating the F&M
Kona Gold's track record at Churchill

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

Couple that haven't been mentioned.

Tiznow out gaming Sakhee
Banks Hill dominating the F&M
Kona Gold's track record at Churchill

You might want to look at the list again.