Non-winners of an Eclipse or Championship

King Glorious · #1 01-25-2007, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I agree that King Glorious was a very nice, and under appreciated horse.

However, Easy Goer was a great 2-year-old. He registered a 116 Beyer when he won the Champagne, and he beat his Is It True with resounding ease in at least two starts prior to being upset by him, in the mud, on BC day.

Easy Goer was a really good 2yo. I wouldn't call him great. The Champagne was a very nice win but I don't think it was more impressive than KG's Hollywood Prevue. EG was given a 116 Beyer in his race; KG ran a 1:21 1/5 in his, which at the time equalled the second fastest time EVER by a 2yo. EG's loss in the BC was indeed viewed as an upset by everyone at the time but in hindsight, it was a precurser to future events. Everytime EG was faced with a really big challenge, he lost. The Juvenile was his big test as a 2yo. He lost. The Derby was his big test in the first half of his 3yo season. He lost. He rebounded in the second half of the year and was ready to take his place on the mantle as one of the sport's all-time greats in the Classic. And he lost again.

I have no doubts in my mind that had KG raced in NY and EG raced in Cali, the historical records would show a different horse as champion.

blackthroatedwind · #2 01-25-2007, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Easy Goer was a really good 2yo. I wouldn't call him great. The Champagne was a very nice win but I don't think it was more impressive than KG's Hollywood Prevue. EG was given a 116 Beyer in his race; KG ran a 1:21 1/5 in his, which at the time equalled the second fastest time EVER by a 2yo. EG's loss in the BC was indeed viewed as an upset by everyone at the time but in hindsight, it was a precurser to future events. Everytime EG was faced with a really big challenge, he lost. The Juvenile was his big test as a 2yo. He lost. The Derby was his big test in the first half of his 3yo season. He lost. He rebounded in the second half of the year and was ready to take his place on the mantle as one of the sport's all-time greats in the Classic. And he lost again.

I have no doubts in my mind that had KG raced in NY and EG raced in Cali, the historical records would show a different horse as champion.

You're nuts.....not that it's such a bad thing.

In defense of Easy Goer, both losses you mention were on wet tracks at Churchill Downs. And, like Alysheba vs. Bet Twice, losing to Sunday Silence was FAR from a disgrace.

I saw King Glorious win the Haskell, and surely you know his career MUCH better than I do, but that Haskell field was hardly spectacular. But, he did drown them.

Easy Goer was a monster.

King Glorious · #3 01-25-2007, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You're nuts.....not that it's such a bad thing.

In defense of Easy Goer, both losses you mention were on wet tracks at Churchill Downs. And, like Alysheba vs. Bet Twice, losing to Sunday Silence was FAR from a disgrace.

I saw King Glorious win the Haskell, and surely you know his career MUCH better than I do, but that Haskell field was hardly spectacular. But, he did drown them.

Easy Goer was a monster.

Again, u are correct. There was nothing disgraceful about EG losses to Sunday Silence. It was simply one great horse beating another great horse. EG doesn't need to be defensed. His record and accomplishments speak for themselves. It's just that little point that bothers me that he lost all three big ones.

For some reason, talking about horses that lost races but weren't disgraced has got me to thinking about Medaglia d'Oro. He was always criticized as being a 9f horse and unable to run 10f. Just because he lost some races to some better horses at 10f doesn't mean he couldn't run it effectively. It took a monster effort by Candy Ride to beat him in the Pacific Classic. It's arguable that Candy Ride was one of the most talented horses of the past 20 years at least. It took a huge effort by Pleasantly Perfect to beat him in Dubai and the effort MDO put in when second in the BC Classic to Pleasantly Perfect, after dueling with Congaree all the way, well, I don't think there are that many horses that would have been able to finish second running that kind of race. I don't know how most people would feel but I think that if I were to rank the top-10 10f horses over the past decade, Pleasantly Perfect would be on that list. So it was no disgrace for MDO to lose those three races to those two horses. Without them being around, he probably wins all three and would be looked at in a totally different light right now.

As for KG's Haskell, he beat nothing at all. He never actually beat any horses of significance in his whole career. Maybe Music Merci was the best he ever beat. I had Samm ask Chris McCarron about KG and how he would have fared against EG and SS when he was on ATRAB. He said that up to a mile, they wouldn't have caught KG because he was too fast but that past that distance, they were probably better horses. I defer to his expertise on the issue, especially considering he rode KG and SS. And I remember asking Gary Stevens before the SA Derby what he thought about KG and he said that if KG had been in the SA Derby, he thought he, and not Sunday Silence, would be the favorite.

mark2061mn · #4 01-25-2007, 04:57 AM

another horse from that 1987 crop that WOULD have been a monster was the danzig colt named qualify. he is the horse that ran 2nd in that crops bc juvie race and he had tremendous upside. he was much like another horse that ran back then, gate dancer. he was pretty goofy, but i thought he was starting to put it together and was turning into a real nice horse. he died unfortunately before he ever ran as a 3yo.

i believe gulch and gone west were both in that crop as well. that was an amazing group.

blackthroatedwind · #5 01-25-2007, 08:12 AM

I'm glad Gone West was just mentioned as I was about to chastise KG for leaving him out. He lost close ones in the Wood to Gulch and I also believe he was third in the Whitney behond Java Gold and Gulch but I'm not certain about that.

And, KG, I completely agree about Medaglia D'Oro and this mistaken " can't get 10F " rap. His second in the BC was arguably his best race ever when you take the pace into account. He was a very good horse going 10F and it is far from clear he was any better at 9F.