Eclipse /Turf Male

[GPK]

MA raced 7 times....5 wins....1 grade 1

EC raced 7 times....4 wins....3 grade 1's


that is doing more and better?

[The Bid]

If The Tin Man holding his top form as an 8yo isnt a good story I dont know what is. He handled some serious horses in the last year, he ran huge everytime they put him on the track. IMO there is nobody more deserving than him. 2 mill in the bank 4 for 5, only loss coming in Dubai, and hes 8. He should have won

[Gander]

The best field assembled in any turf race in the US all year was the Arlington Million. The Tin Man won that race. He also won a couple others, one being another grade 1 and finished 2nd in a huge race in Dubai to a horse who would have been odds on had he run in the BC Turf. Thats enough for me in a year where there was no dominant horse.

Lets face it, this hasnt exactly been an electrifying decade for US turf horses like the 90's when we had Paradise Creek, Lure and Star of Cozzene who all raced against each other. All 3 of those horses would have gobbled up and spit out The Tin Man, EC and Cacique. None would have to use the excuse that the Tin Man "stole" the Arlington Million, thats for sure@!

[GPK]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Kev, i understand what you are saying but here is how I looked at it, because I thought Miesque's Approvel should be the winner. Arguably the two biggest turf races distance wise in the country are the Arlington Million and the BC turf. English Channel lost both. The Tin Man defeated him by winning the Arlington Million and race record was just as good as EC's. I think they kind of crossed each other out. Tough to seperate them. Whereas MA won the BC Mile, the biggest middle distance turf race, and had a very good year. Add to it the outside stuff like him being in a claiming race last year, his unbelievable turn around. Remember, it's an opinion vote, voted on by writers so it'll never be correct. I personally think in this case it is, but surely a very valid arguement could be made for either one of the 3.

In all honesty, its hard to even really compare MA to EC or TTM. MA ran in 2 races over 1 mile all year. He ran in the 1 1/8 Sunshine Millions Turf (beating Silver Tree and Icy Atlantic ) in a race that was gift wrapped for him by the pace setters (:46, 1:09, 1:33, 1:44). Come on...I could have run down the frontrunners with them setting those fractions. His only other race over 1 mile was the Canadian Turf Handicap, where he finished 2nd to none other than....ENGLISH CHANNEL. He had no excuses that day other than he simply wasn't good enough. He had pace to run at, he was making his 3rd start for Wolfson, was in top form. English Channel was coming off a 4.5 month layoff....clearly not in top form and was using that race as a prep the
Turf Classic on Derby Day.
The rest of MA's races last year were all for 1 mile...no more, no less. He gets Artie at the wire in the Makers Mark, and we all know that Artie was a shadow of his former self, so no great feat there IMO. MA then beats the mighty FREE THINKING in the Firecracker, and we all KNOW what a great turf horse he is. He then backs that up with a HUGE effort over the mighty HOTSTUFFANDTHENSOME AND SENOR SWINGER in that hotly contest Grade 3 Redbank. He then runs a non competitive 4th in the Shadwell. Tops the year off by run FANTASTIC in the BC Mile and winning....

Im sorry, 1 great race does not equal an Eclipse in my book.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Kev, i love ya man but don't you think you are a tad biased? I mean geez you have English Channel license plates. If EC deserves it so much couldn't such a strong arguement be made for The Tin Man. I mean he beat your boy for fun at Arlington. EC's problem is he traded punches all year with Cacique, I don't see you bothered by Cacique not being a finalist. He won 2 grade 1's and beat your boy twice. It was a tough decision, but EC not winning the BC cost him, plain and simple. BC races have a huge impact always and EC lost when MA won.

real quick, and I will respond more this afternoon, but I would have had no problem whatsoever had TTM won the Eclipse. He had a wonderful year, no doubt.

As fas as Cacique, he ran one of THE BEST turf races this year when finishing 4th in the Kilroe Mile out west. He was beaten a 1/2 length maybe after having to go 10 wide maybe???

again, will respond more in detail after work.

shower time...

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

scrub that hate er off .. ..ec is ok if he would have won the bc or won the million..hed have been a contender...

[GPK]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

scrub that hate er off .. ..ec is ok if he would have won the bc or won the million..hed have been a contender...

Hooves...not hating at all...I like MA, he is a good horse. I just think its tough to justify the Eclipse on the BC race alone.

ALL 3 horses ran some really good races and ALL 3 ran some not so good races. Its just of my opinion that TTM and EC ran better races against better horses more often.

[Gander]

The Tin Man would have gotten it if there wasnt such a intense bias against west coast horses.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

The Tin Man would have gotten it if there wasnt such a intense bias against west coast horses.

from what I understand, all the TVG guys never mentioned EC. All they talked about was TTM. So, the bias works both ways...