Declans Moon

[Scav]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Most impressive races of the year? Now that is funny.....keep the jokes coming.....

Seems like a lot more than his guts came out of him during that race....talk about a one race wonder...

If you recall, he ran a HELL of a Kentucky Derby all things considered. He was like 18 wide with Guidry and at one point took the lead on the turn, think he held for 5th or something.

I am speaking about Buzzard's Bay, just to clarify

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Scav

If you recall, he ran a HELL of a Kentucky Derby all things considered. He was like 18 wide with Guidry and at one point took the lead on the turn, think he held for 5th or something.

I am speaking about Buzzard's Bay, just to clarify

Was Buzzards Bay a terrible horse? Not at all.....I just think he was a one race wonder...and his record pretty much shows that....

[Scav]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Was Buzzards Bay a terrible horse? Not at all.....I just think he was a one race wonder...and his record pretty much shows that....

Well, I disagree with you, and I am hoping he proves you wrong this year

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Scav

Well, I disagree with you, and I am hoping he proves you wrong this year

Thats cool.....and if he turns out to be a very good horse and win some nice races I will be the first to admit I was wrong...

But after his flop at CD and Ellis recent job with DM I wouldnt hold my breath

[Scav]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Thats cool.....and if he turns out to be a very good horse and win some nice races I will be the first to admit I was wrong...

But after his flop at CD and Ellis recent job with DM I wouldnt hold my breath

I don't think DM is Ellis's fault, horse has lost 'it'. You can't teach 'it'. They have to have it.

I really don't see where you are going with busting Ellis. His %'s are amazing, and his horses are always well taken care of. You know, horses that get a taste of the farm sometimes lost 'it' and it looks like that has happened with DM. Could easily be a breathing problem also. who knows...

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Scav

I don't think DM is Ellis's fault, horse has lost 'it'. You can't teach 'it'. They have to have it.

I really don't see where you are going with busting Ellis. His %'s are amazing, and his horses are always well taken care of. You know, horses that get a taste of the farm sometimes lost 'it' and it looks like that has happened with DM. Could easily be a breathing problem also. who knows...

I think he was way too aggressive with DM ...running him back 2 weeks after a miseable defeat vs Dixiemeister and those other worldbeaters was really insane/stupid.....its not like he had an easy race...was used hard and ran dead last....then to come back at GG 14 days later...come on....Ellis looks desperate....

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

I think he was way too aggressive with DM ...running him back 2 weeks after a miseable defeat vs Dixiemeister and those other worldbeaters was really insane/stupid.....its not like he had an easy race...was used hard and ran dead last....then to come back at GG 14 days later...come on....Ellis looks desperate....

They totally spoil that horse. In the morning, they bring him on the track and let him stand and stare for 15 minutes if he wants to. That's what McAnally used to do with John Henry. The difference was that John Henry would go out in the afternoon and win.

Anyway, they treat the horse like royalty. And they give him plenty of time between races but that hasn't been working. They've gone over with him a fine-tooth comb and can't find anything wrong. So it appears that the horse is simply not trying. His last race did not appear to take much out of him so they figured they would wheel him right back in an easy spot. It obviously didn't work, but as bad as he ran I don't think even four weeks would have made a difference.

Sometimes it is obvious what is wrong with a horse physically but other times it is not. Since horses can't speak, sometimes trainers have to to try to be psychologists and figure out what is going on in their head. What they had been doing with DM did not appear to be working so they figured they would try something different. I can't fault them for that. I don't like bringing horses back in two or even three weeks. But in this case, I can understand why they did it. And as I said before, as bad as he ran today I don't think it made much difference.

I still think there may be something wrong with the horse that they have not been able to diagnose.

[The Bid]

I dont think Ron Ellis did a terrible job bringing Declans Moon back, hes just not much horse. He was a fantastic 2yo pre injury, and he may very well be the same exact horse today. The problem is all the other horses have matured and hes stayed the same or regressed.

Lets say hypothetically Declans Moon was in another barn, would he really be that much better? I mean the horse cant win at Golden Gate Fields for Christ sakes.

I dont think Ellis is a hall of fame trainer, but I dont think hes an idiot. Some guys are sharper than others but if you dont have the horse you just arent going to win, period.

Buzzards Bay Ive always really liked, hes a good looking horse, great looking

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Was Buzzards Bay a terrible horse? Not at all.....I just think he was a one race wonder...and his record pretty much shows that....

I don't know how you can say BB is a one-race wonder. He is a mulitiple graded stakes winner. He won the Grade I Santa Anita Derby. He won the Grade III All American Handicap. He won the Grade II Oaklawn Handicap. He is obviously not a one-race wonder. A one race wonder is a horse that has only won one big race.

With regard to Ellis, his numbers speak for themselves. Bad trainers don't have years when they win at 29% clips. Bad trainers don't win graded stakes races at a 40% clip.

I noticed you are starting to backtrack a bit. At first you said that Ellis is terrible. Now you are saying that he is average.

What do you expect from him when he comes on TVG? I never said that he could make his living handicapping. I think he comes off fine on TVG. He comes off just as well as the other trainers that they have on.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I don't know how you can say BB is a one-race wonder. He is a mulitiple graded stakes winner. He won the Grade I Santa Anita Derby. He won the Grade III All American Handicap. He won the Grade II Oaklawn Handicap. He is obviously not a one-race wonder. A one race wonder is a horse that has only won one big race.

With regard to Ellis, his numbers speak for themselves. Bad trainers don't have years when they win at 29% clips. Bad trainers don't win graded stakes races at a 40% clip.

I noticed you are starting to backtrack a bit. At first you said that Ellis is terrible. Now you are saying that he is average.

What do you expect from him when he comes on TVG? I never said that he could make his living handicapping. I think he comes off fine on TVG. He comes off just as well as the other trainers that they have on.

Terrible job with DM/Average trainer.......

What do I expect from a trainer who comes on TVG to talk about horses? Not a whole lot....just not to be a blithering idiot at times....I loved it when he was on during the Del MAr Derby...I loved Get Funky.....Ellis...the brainiac that he is says the following about the horse:

"Well...I think the one thing about this horse is after the races we all like to get funky down here by the beach.....you need to consider that"

What in gods name is this idiot saying? Then during the post parade he said the same damn thing...

The guy is embarassing on TV.....He picked another horse to win....I was that much more comfortable betting Get Funky......he won at 6-1 rather easily...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Terrible job with DM/Average trainer.......

What do I expect from a trainer who comes on TVG to talk about horses? Not a whole lot....just not to be a blithering idiot at times....I loved it when he was on during the Del MAr Derby...I loved Get Funky.....Ellis...the brainiac that he is says the following about the horse:

"Well...I think the one thing about this horse is after the races we all like to get funky down here by the beach.....you need to consider that"

What in gods name is this idiot saying? Then during the post parade he said the same damn thing...

The guy is embarassing on TV.....He picked another horse to win....I was that much more comfortable betting Get Funky......he won at 6-1 rather easily...

I don't think his comment about "getting funky" at the beach is a big deal. That will hardly be the first time or last time that one of these guys will make a bad joke.

You are correct that there are time when some of these guys including Ellis will go on the air without doing their homework. Sometimes they don't have time. Ron sometimes goes on as a last minute replacement. Not only that, these trainers wake up at 5:00am, go to work and then have to sometimes go straight to the set at TVG. Sometimes they don't have time to prepare and they just handicap the races as they go along.

With regard to Tom Amoss, I think he can be hit or miss. I've seen him make some very insightful comments on "The Works". Other times, I've seen him say some really ridiculous things. The funniest thing is when he keeps saying that the horses' ears are forward because they are waiting for a command. He's right that it is a good sign when their are forward. Their ears come forward when they are enjoying themselves out there and are going really easy without much effort. A horse's ears will not be forward when they are fully exerting themselves. Anyway, when their ears are forward, they are not necessarily waiting for a command. It just means that they are going easy without much effort and are enjoying themselves. It may or may not mean that they are waiting for a command. But ever time Amoss is on, all he ever talks about is how the horse is waiting for a command.