flashy bull

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by boldruler

Household names. LOL.

9/10 derby winners were- Barbaro, Smarty Jones, Funny Cide, War Emblem, Monarchos, Fusaichi Pegasus, Charismatic, Real Quiet, Silver Charm.

All 9 are bigger names than Medaglia D'Oro. 8 of 9 are bigger name than Point Given.

Let me roll off the real impressive Travers winners. Unshaded, Lemon Drop Kid, Coranados Quest, Deputy Commander, I can't think of anymore. Nobody outside of big racing fans has heard of any of these horses.

Millions watch and listen to the derby, you can catch the Travers on ESPN2, as long as women's softball isn't running long. LOL.

Or Little League..
Still, the Travers is one I personally look forward to. My first one was Thunder Gulch. Wish i'd been there for Alydar's (too young).
A link...



http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=34075

Just me, but I love the Travers.

DTS

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well since he was one of two HOYs listed(the other being Charismatic) I would say he is a bigger name than all except Smarty.

The Travers is, of course, the oldest stake race in America...I think it's fair to say that it's been victimized, like all NY late summer and fall stakes by the Breeder's Cup. There was a time when every good three year old was pointed toward the race, past winners include some real giants of racing:
Alydar
Damascus
Buckpasser
Sword Dancer
Native Dancer
Whirlaway
Man O War
Hindoo
Duke of Magenta
Ruthless
Kentucky
And that's not to mention some very famous horses who fell victim to the curse of Saratoga!
Today unfortunately, many see it as a prep for the BC...times change!

[sumitas]

only 1 horse has won all four 3 yr old classics.


Whirlaway.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

The Travers is, of course, the oldest stake race in America...I think it's fair to say that it's been victimized, like all NY late summer and fall stakes by the Breeder's Cup. There was a time when every good three year old was pointed toward the race, past winners include some real giants of racing:
Alydar
Damascus
Buckpasser
Sword Dancer
Native Dancer
Whirlaway
Man O War
Hindoo
Duke of Magenta
Ruthless
Kentucky
And that's not to mention some very famous horses who fell victim to the curse of Saratoga!
Today unfortunately, many see it as a prep for the BC...times change!

How's that for household names? Nice info Somer!!

Originally Posted by somerfrost

The Travers is, of course, the oldest stake race in America...I think it's fair to say that it's been victimized, like all NY late summer and fall stakes by the Breeder's Cup. There was a time when every good three year old was pointed toward the race, past winners include some real giants of racing:
Alydar
Damascus
Buckpasser
Sword Dancer
Native Dancer
Whirlaway
Man O War
Hindoo
Duke of Magenta
Ruthless
Kentucky
And that's not to mention some very famous horses who fell victim to the curse of Saratoga!
Today unfortunately, many see it as a prep for the BC...times change!

The Haskell also makes it a lot less relevant. Discrete Cat and Bernardini are going to go in different races. SNS might go to another race. The fact is the Travers doesn't attract many of the top 3yr olds any longer.

[Gander]

The Travers has never been on the top of my list for favorite races and I live here. This is just my opinion but I can name 5 other races at Saratoga alone that rank higher than the Travers. Maybe its the county fair like crowd we always seem to get for this event, I dont know. But its a race I could take or leave. Much the same as the Haskell. Maybe its a matter of being burnt out from 3 year old racing from the Triple Crown.

[sumitas]

The Travers is the Midsummer Derby. The 4th leg of the 3 year old's grand slam.

As i recall, Flower Alley won last year. Not too shabby.

Originally Posted by boldruler

The Haskell also makes it a lot less relevant. Discrete Cat and Bernardini are going to go in different races. SNS might go to another race. The fact is the Travers doesn't attract many of the top 3yr olds any longer.

LOL!!!! What a joke!! Its a million dollar grade one race and last year attracted the three best three year olds in training at that time. You are way off base on this issue, way off base. YOu can run in both the Haskell and the Travers just as RR did last year. The year before the horse who won the Belmont won the Travers. In 2003 EM and Fc were hurting and passed after both being entered for the race. In 2002 Medaglia D'oro had certainly bloomed into the leading three year old at that time and he indeed won it. Please inform me of all the "big name " horses who have passed the race? You are talking out of your ass on this topic sir.

[Gander]

The fact is the Travers doesn't attract many of the top 3yr olds any longer.

I dont necessarily agree about this. I wont oooh and awwe over the Travers as it gets near, but I wouldnt say the top 3 year olds arent attracted to this.

Its just by the time August rolls around, many of the best 3 year olds are hurt or retire because their greedy owners need a 9th house in the hamptons.

The Travers to me is just not all that and a bag of chips.

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!!! What a joke!! Its a million dollar grade one race and last year attracted the three best three year olds in training at that time. You are way off base on this issue, way off base. YOu can run in both the Haskell and the Travers just as RR did last year. The year before the horse who won the Belmont won the Travers. In 2003 EM and Fc were hurting and passed after both being entered for the race. In 2002 Medaglia D'oro had certainly bloomed into the leading three year old at that time and he indeed won it. Please inform me of all the "big name " horses who have passed the race? You are talking out of your ass on this topic sir.

Spoken like a person that lives there. Great, get the top 3 3yr olds, I will take the top 20 for the derby. Like I said, hopefully little league baseball won't keep us from watching it this year.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!!! What a joke!! Its a million dollar grade one race and last year attracted the three best three year olds in training at that time. You are way off base on this issue, way off base. YOu can run in both the Haskell and the Travers just as RR did last year. The year before the horse who won the Belmont won the Travers. In 2003 EM and Fc were hurting and passed after both being entered for the race. In 2002 Medaglia D'oro had certainly bloomed into the leading three year old at that time and he indeed won it. Please inform me of all the "big name " horses who have passed the race? You are talking out of your ass on this topic sir.

that's a good point. the best 3yos don't "pass" on this race.. they're injured, not ready, or retired by then.... or weren't good enough at the time to enter.

[Thunder Gulch]

The Travers is the last really important 3yo race of the year before they officially graduate to facing olders.

Originally Posted by Gander

The Travers has never been on the top of my list for favorite races and I live here. This is just my opinion but I can name 5 other races at Saratoga alone that rank higher than the Travers. Maybe its the county fair like crowd we always seem to get for this event, I dont know. But its a race I could take or leave. Much the same as the Haskell. Maybe its a matter of being burnt out from 3 year old racing from the Triple Crown.

I love the Sword Dancer, The Test, and the Hopeful and prefer the Whitney to the Travers. I put the Travers #5 for me at the meet.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

that's a good point. the best 3yos don't "pass" on this race.. they're injured, not ready, or retired by then.... or weren't good enough at the time to enter.

Well isn't that obvious? I mean what the Derby really does is show us that most in there didn't belong in the race in the first place, usually about ten in there don't belong. By August they are not running them in races that high in class.

[Gander]

I like:

1) Forego
2) Kings Bishop
3) Sword Dancer (although this race has gone down hill lately, big time!)
4) Whitney
5) Any race that bails me out of a bad day, even the cheap claimers.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Gander

I like:

1) Forego
2) Kings Bishop
3) Sword Dancer (although this race has gone down hill lately, big time!)
4) Whitney
5) Any race that bails me out of a bad day, even the cheap claimers.

Betting-Wise I completely agree. Those races usually offer up some nice value on horses.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by boldruler

That guy is full of it. There is nobody alive that rather win the Travers than the Kentucky Derby. Good luck to his horse but horses like Ministers Bid and Bernardini are in a completely different league than Flashy Bull types.

IMO, it's not fair to put Bernardini in the same category as Minister's Bid. All MB has done is break his maiden - Bernardini ran a phenomenal race to win the Preakness in just his 4th start and first around two turns. Whether or not MB is that good is still to be determined. Right now, I can't see any three year old beating Bernardini.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Betsy

IMO, it's not fair to put Bernardini in the same category as Minister's Bid. All MB has done is break his maiden - Bernardini ran a phenomenal race to win the Preakness in just his 4th start and first around two turns. Whether or not MB is that good is still to be determined. Right now, I can't see any three year old beating Bernardini.

Boy I do. Bernardini won't win the Travers IMO.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Boy I do. Bernardini won't win the Travers IMO.

You have not been impressed with Bernardini?

We agree on Mineshaft (for which I'm grateful, since I spent much time exhausting myself defending him), but part ways here. Obviously no horse is unbeatable....so, that's not my point. This horse has so much ability, it's scary.........and he can only get better. I'm curious as to why you think he can be had. IMO, Bluegrass Cat and the horses behind him are plodders; they have no shot. By the time they make their move, Bernardini would be too far out in front (as he can move in a flash). Jazil? I just don't think he's all that fast.......

[JJP]

Flashy Bull is in tomorrow at Belmont in a NW1X that came up extremely tough. The race also drew Minister's Bid, a Ward runner who was IMO the most impressive Mdn winner of the spring Kee meet when he closed over that track wide and earned a 97 Beyer. Racketeer is in there as well; he was 4th beaten only 2 1/2 by AP Warrior and Point Determined in the San Felipe. Forest Phantom has a 2nd to High Finance; Habsburg is a Harty runner off a Mdn win at Bel (93 Beyer) and Elements is off a solid 3rd at Bel; 8 lengths in front of 4th (93 Beyer). This has the makings of a key race.