hillary or osama er bama....

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Yeah, cause the recent parade into the White House over the past few decades has been filled with such noble statesmen! What this country needs is more pandering to the rich and the bible-thumpers that evoke the name of the Almighty as some sort of talisman to ward off any point of view other than their own!

Typical flamer rhetoric....the rich don't deserve their wealth and anyone who doesn't agree with us is mean-spirited! Do you actually proof before you post??

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Typical flamer rhetoric....the rich don't deserve their wealth and anyone who doesn't agree with us is mean-spirited! Do you actually proof before you post??

Timm, why don't you offer some specifics on exactly why you don't like Hilary, instead of just saying "God help us" if she's elected. I can give you specific things about Giuliani and McCain that I don't like, actions that they have taken while elected officials. Offer the same stuff on Hilary, please- which of her positions do you opposed? Otherwise you come across sounding as though you get your talking points from Rush Limbaugh, and he's not known for his journalistic integrity.

I gots news for ya, my friend- politicians are ALL power-mad schemers. It's how they get elected. I find it very sexist of you that you clearly consider that a negative thing in a woman but not a man.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Timm, why don't you offer some specifics on exactly why you don't like Hilary, instead of just saying "God help us" if she's elected. I can give you specific things about Giuliani and McCain that I don't like, actions that they have taken while elected officials. Offer the same stuff on Hilary, please- which of her positions do you opposed? Otherwise you come across sounding as though you get your talking points from Rush Limbaugh, and he's not known for his journalistic integrity.

I gots news for ya, my friend- politicians are ALL power-mad schemers. It's how they get elected. I find it very sexist of you that you clearly consider that a negative thing in a woman but not a man.

GR: Let's do the last stuff first...you are projecting possibly..that I made a sexist remark about women in general, and Hillary in specific...I am not a sexist. I do not believe all people in politics are powermad,but I think Hillary is,and I think she started at a young age! I'm not lookin for Diogenes,here. Obama is untested completely, McCain is a possible nutjob,and Guilani is soft on everything but defense..his possible saving grace! As far as Hilary goes..she's legend as far as payback goes...I can get a list if you need it. Her healthcare plan was a giant mistake(14% gross national expense) Painted herself as a victim(horntoad for a husband)but went after anyone who dare crossed her and FOB. Grossly unqualified to be President...no experience with making or managing foreign policy. Great attack dog modus operendi for using her and Bubbas' staffs for slandering,and investigational techniques for possible political opponents(J.E.Hoover comes to mind) and don't forget the Clinton deathlist...it's out there...just like the 9/11 conspiracy theories...by the way...jet fuel burns at 1525...irons' integrity breaks down at 850....so much for "the govt did it" theory! If you'd like to discuss further..feel free...one last thing..Salon is JUST above commondreams as far as veracity goes! Cheers

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

GR: Let's do the last stuff first...you are projecting possibly..that I made a sexist remark about women in general, and Hillary in specific...I am not a sexist. I do not believe all people in politics are powermad,but I think Hillary is,and I think she started at a young age! I'm not lookin for Diogenes,here. Obama is untested completely, McCain is a possible nutjob,and Guilani is soft on everything but defense..his possible saving grace! As far as Hilary goes..she's legend as far as payback goes...I can get a list if you need it. Her healthcare plan was a giant mistake(14% gross national expense) Painted herself as a victim(horntoad for a husband)but went after anyone who dare crossed her and FOB. Grossly unqualified to be President...no experience with making or managing foreign policy. Great attack dog modus operendi for using her and Bubbas' staffs for slandering,and investigational techniques for possible political opponents(J.E.Hoover comes to mind) and don't forget the Clinton deathlist...it's out there...just like the 9/11 conspiracy theories...by the way...jet fuel burns at 1525...irons' integrity breaks down at 850....so much for "the govt did it" theory! If you'd like to discuss further..feel free...one last thing..Salon is JUST above commondreams as far as veracity goes! Cheers

Ah, specifics! Thank you. I have to get to work in about 5 minutes, but I'll start up-

Currently the US pays more, per person, in healthcare than any other industrialized nation, and our lifespan is lower and infant death rate higher than most any other industrialized nation. Health care needs reform. Yes, it would add a big cost to the government (14 percent is the number you quoted, and until I research myself I'll accept that as fair) BUT it would cut 20 percent from the cost of producing steel. The central reason jobs are going overseas is that they are cheaper overthere and the leading cause is healthcare. So, a 14 percent increase in domestic spending, versus a 20 percent decrease in cost of manufacturing. I'll take cutting the cost of manufacturing, myself, if it keeps jobs here.

Please cite me examples of when Hillary painted herself as a victim about her husband's infidelity. From what I read (including her very boring autobiography) she's spoken less about it than anyone else, including her husband. And regarding attacking the GOP-- they went after her husband for a sexual infidelity, and spent your money and mine in the process. What did you expect her to do? Sit back and watch her husband get slaughtered? I gave her props for coming out swinging (metaphorically in the fighting sense, not in the 1970's sense, which would have been VERY interesting) and taking control of what was, really, a stupid, stupid "crisis" instituted by the GOP.

She's been a Senator for six years and serves on the Armed Forces Committee- how does she have no experience with making or managing foreign policy? What was GW's experience with foreign policy prior to the White House? He was a governor, right? In the one of the states that gives little power to the governor (pgardn, correct me if I'm wrong here, please).

Yes, I would appreciate you posting Hillary's payback list, as you put it. Please do!

Okay, later 'gators (Cajun and otherwise)- gotta go work some more.

As for the sexism-- see the smiley- trying to make a point about unsubstantiated accusations, using the fact that you only pointed out women in politics as being powermad. It's easy to do, isn't it?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

From what I read, including her very boring autobiography

Oh man, I loved her autobiography. I thought while it was tedious at times because it was very anecdotal, even about things that bored me -- I thought it was well written and a real testament to the woman she is. I thought it was really interesting to read a lot of what she said, and how much restraint she showed when talking about sensitive things.

Plus, it gave me an excuse to camp out overnight to get to shake her hand at a Borders Books

Any excuse for camping out overnight on city streets is a good one for me!

[timmgirvan]

GR: when you get the time...start with TravelGate! Regarding the GOP..it was elected members of Congress led by the Soul of Congress Liebermann who condemned Clinton for his foolishness,not Party Heads. Hillary came out swinging?..more like a knife in the back or Death threats on enemys families! Any body around you know who's had 60-70 associates meet untimely deaths! They could make a movie about it....but then they'd have to kill everybody who saw the movie!! Ron Brown ring a bell? And I didn't say women...I said Hillary, but I'll throw in Pelosi for you too!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

GR: when you get the time...start with TravelGate! Regarding the GOP..it was elected members of Congress led by the Soul of Congress Liebermann who condemned Clinton for his foolishness,not Party Heads. Hillary came out swinging?..more like a knife in the back or Death threats on enemys families! Any body around you know who's had 60-70 associates meet untimely deaths! They could make a movie about it....but then they'd have to kill everybody who saw the movie!! Ron Brown ring a bell? And I didn't say women...I said Hillary, but I'll throw in Pelosi for you too!

Timm, which party was in control of Congress during the impeachment thing? Come on, which party? Lieberman didn't spearhead the thing; he voted for it (and by the way, if you want him, you can have him. Just give us Chuck Hagel in return). Ron Brown? Right. And Senator Wellstone's plane was brought down by Republican agents determined to make sure they kept control of the Senate. You've GOT to get off the conspiracy stuff, at least with me, as I don't think I've ever posted anything to indicate I believe any of them (other than Condi sleeping with Bush, heh heh heh).

So, how many people met untimely deaths? Sixty or seventy? Post their names, please. If you're going to accuse the Clintons of that much conspiracy and murder, you should post all the names of people you believe they had killed. Again, specifics.

As I said, the only powermad people you mentioned were both female. And you mentioned Pelosi the first time. Be sure to reread your posts so you don't repeat yourself and just further accentuate my point- which is that even though it's easy to make generalized accusations, I'd recommend not doing it because it can go both ways. Midolman.

(No I don't think you hate women or anything like that. I was just trying to say something about generalizations)

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Timm, which party was in control of Congress during the impeachment thing? Come on, which party? Lieberman didn't spearhead the thing; he voted for it (and by the way, if you want him, you can have him. Just give us Chuck Hagel in return). Ron Brown? Right. And Senator Wellstone's plane was brought down by Republican agents determined to make sure they kept control of the Senate. You've GOT to get off the conspiracy stuff, at least with me, as I don't think I've ever posted anything to indicate I believe any of them (other than Condi sleeping with Bush, heh heh heh).

So, how many people met untimely deaths? Sixty or seventy? Post their names, please. If you're going to accuse the Clintons of that much conspiracy and murder, you should post all the names of people you believe they had killed. Again, specifics.

As I said, the only powermad people you mentioned were both female. And you mentioned Pelosi the first time. Be sure to reread your posts so you don't repeat yourself and just further accentuate my point- which is that even though it's easy to make generalized accusations, I'd recommend not doing it because it can go both ways. Midolman.

(No I don't think you hate women or anything like that. I was just trying to say something about generalizations)

GR: I'll fess up..I have been called a bit*h! MidolMan is good,though! You're still projecting,Gr, about my sexist(not) comments. I think Geo Soros is powermad too. But he's not King,yet. Just like them to kick JL to the curb once he's fulfilled his purpose. You can Google like the best of them,GR, so you can look up things pertinent to this. You know that Ron Brown was facing criminal charges, and he told Slick Willie he wasn't going down alone! Bye RB. Have you never heard of the Clinton death list? If you need it I'll post it if I can get the link. And I want to publicly thank DTS for giving me the info on posting a link. He's the BEST!

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Timm, why don't you offer some specifics on exactly why you don't like Hilary, instead of just saying "God help us" if she's elected. I can give you specific things about Giuliani and McCain that I don't like, actions that they have taken while elected officials. Offer the same stuff on Hilary, please- which of her positions do you opposed? Otherwise you come across sounding as though you get your talking points from Rush Limbaugh, and he's not known for his journalistic integrity.

I gots news for ya, my friend- politicians are ALL power-mad schemers. It's how they get elected. I find it very sexist of you that you clearly consider that a negative thing in a woman but not a man.

she was already prez once....just ask bill..

[timmgirvan]

Hooves: thank you...thankyouverymuch!

Hillary is a doer. She personally called up many of the major employers in NY and met with them and asked how she could help them hire additional folks to expand business. What was and was not getting in the way. She did some amazing work with Corning. Talked with Union folks backed them down on certain criteria and basically made it easier to hire qualified folks that would help companies. She did an amazing job.

She is extraordinarily capable. Her health care plan was a plan. And the Republican plan... nowhere. She is the one Democrat with a definite ability to GET THINGS DONE. Now you might not like her ideas, but she has ideas. I also believe she has made many credible aquaintances with quality folks that can get jobs done. ONe thing George did a pitiful job of was picking people for what he thought were minor posts that were completely inept friends or political contributors. FEMA turned out not to be so minor. The list is deep.

I think she will pick good people in all spots. Loyality only goes so far, you have got to move competent people into place.

And I probably will not vote for her. Obama is a definite no. I see a great orator, and smart man... but my God he just has NO experience.

Mean people with experience also can get jobs done. Abraham L. put some of his most ardent enemies into major posts because he knew they were terribly capable at things that he needed them for. I know politics does not work this way anymore, and it is sad. CAPABLE people may be better than people who talk YOUR game, but cannot get things done.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I think she will pick good people in all spots. Loyality only goes so far, you have got to move competent people into place.

And I probably will not vote for her. Obama is a definite no. I see a great orator, and smart man... but my God he just has NO experience.

Mean people with experience also can get jobs done. Abraham L. put some of his most ardent enemies into major posts because he knew they were terribly capable at things that he needed them for. I know politics does not work this way anymore, and it is sad. CAPABLE people may be better than people who talk YOUR game, but cannot get things done.

I like Hillary, but all personal likes or dislikes aside I still don't see how anyone can deny the points you've made, that she gets things done and tries to cross the necessary bridges to get there....some people just don't let her over to the other side because party loyalty seems more important these days then getting things done right for the country.

And as for the end of the your post -- I wish it worked that way. I really do. But it's a pipe dream at this point.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Hillary is a doer. She personally called up many of the major employers in NY and met with them and asked how she could help them hire additional folks to expand business. What was and was not getting in the way. She did some amazing work with Corning. Talked with Union folks backed them down on certain criteria and basically made it easier to hire qualified folks that would help companies. She did an amazing job.

I will give you some news about NY states economy during the Hillary era.

www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2004/0426economypr.htm

In a nutshell it tells how poorly the NY economy was doing in the 1st part of the decade through 2004.

[Cannon Shell]

Here is a bit about the state of Hillary's state in regards to her pet project of healthcare.

www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2006/1012medicaid.htm

[Cannon Shell]

I would have to say that I am still waiting for Hillary's impact to be felt in NY. Though she travels (campaigns?) extensively as junior senator in NY she has accomplished virtually nothing. She is strictly a politician of the polls and she choose NY as it is the most liberal leaning major state outside of CA where she can maintain a high profile. She has pissed off far left-liberals by moving to the right on issues when the polls say so and is pretty much universally hated by the right no matter what. I personally think that she would be the worst choice by Democrats as she is sure to mobilize the now shaken republicians to a common goal of beating her. Of course Kerry or Gore might be as bad but I dont think anyone is giving them a real chance.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Here is a bit about the state of Hillary's state in regards to her pet project of healthcare.

www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2006/1012medicaid.htm

News for you Cannon-- Hillary has NO control over how NYState's Medicare and Medicaid is administered. What party has been in charge of NY State over the past decade? Oh, riiiiiight....

Oh, while we're on the subject, which party pushed through the big increase in Medicare with that giveaway to the drug companies? Riiiiiight....

(Which is not to say NY's health care isn't completely f*cked up, but to imply that's Hillary's fault is absurd)

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I will give you some news about NY states economy during the Hillary era.

www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2004/0426economypr.htm

In a nutshell it tells how poorly the NY economy was doing in the 1st part of the decade through 2004.

Because, of course, a single senator has complete control over her state's economy, far more than the Governor and State Congress. What party ran NY's Governorship and Congress during 2000-2004? Oh, riiiiiight....

[timmgirvan]

GR: I wondered when you'd come wanderin in!

[Cajungator26]

Nick Saban for president!

J/K

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Typical flamer rhetoric....the rich don't deserve their wealth and anyone who doesn't agree with us is mean-spirited! Do you actually proof before you post??

I'm not the one who evoked the Almighty as a talisman!