Stupid breeding question

[paisjpq]

siblings...esp full sibling will always benefit from the success of their brothers and sisters...
but this is more true about fillies than colts IMO...the breeding parachute will open wider for a well bred unraced filly with good siblings than it will for a colt in the same situation...
I don't think DOA will increase LM potential stud value much...which doesn't mean that I think they might pass on different things just that it is how the market operates...it will forgive a filly for not running but not a stud.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

siblings...esp full sibling will always benefit from the success of their brothers and sisters...
but this is more true about fillies than colts IMO...the breeding parachute will open wider for a well bred unraced filly with good siblings than it will for a colt in the same situation...
I don't think DOA will increase LM potential stud value much...

So, essentially, no matter how good she may get or how good her offspring turn out to be on the track, Lewis Michael would still be standing on just his own accomplishments?

I don't get the biology of how the traits/success is passed down very well -- do you know why it wouldn't work vice versa for Lewis Michael?

[paisjpq]

I edited my post above...they have the same DNA so the potential to pass on the same traits is there...i just think that it is a market issue. And then OF COURSE you have to go through the whole nature vs. nurture debate.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

So, essentially, no matter how good she may get or how good her offspring turn out to be on the track, Lewis Michael would still be standing on just his own accomplishments?

I don't get the biology of how the traits/success is passed down very well -- do you know why it wouldn't work vice versa for Lewis Michael?

he can benefit from her success but he won't get a stud deal out of it unless he does some running himself...or he stands in Utah or something.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

he can benefit from her success but he won't get a stud deal out of it unless he does some running himself...or he stands in Utah or something.

haha.

I would think he'd be useful as an Illinois stallion at this point -- there isn't much standing in Illinois really. Cartwright was about as good as it got, and he's gone now.

Who knows....we'll see. I just wondered how the market/breeders react to general sibling success like that -- thanks B.

[Scav]

Look at Unforgettable Max....I think he is a full to Afleet Alex (can't verify with pedigreequery right now) but he didn't do much on the track.

Eavesdropper is another one

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Scav

Look at Unforgettable Max....I think he is a full to Afleet Alex (can't verify with pedigreequery right now) but he didn't do much on the track.

Eavesdropper is another one

he is...but it's a slightly different situation in that he was marketed as the answer for all those people who couldn't get a season with AA...and since he only lasted for one season in KY I guess it wasn't as successful as they had hoped...

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Scav

Look at Unforgettable Max....I think he is a full to Afleet Alex (can't verify with pedigreequery right now) but he didn't do much on the track.

Eavesdropper is another one

Yeah, just 5 wins, 4 seconds in 23 starts, $384,079, 1st Shecky Greene S; 2nd General George S (G2), Discovery H (G3), Salvator Mile (G3), Jim McKay BC H; 3rd Tom Fool H (G2).

I've seen horses go to stud with a lot less in racing credentials, especially in regional markets. Check out Devon Lane - 3 wins in 6 starts, but only earned $6300. Can you say CHEAP? But he got a chance at stud because he was a son of Storm Cat; and his distinguished 1/2-sisters Starrer and Stellar Jayne came along later to make his ads look good.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Scav

Look at Unforgettable Max....I think he is a full to Afleet Alex (can't verify with pedigreequery right now) but he didn't do much on the track.

Eavesdropper is another one

Unforgettable Max trivia: In the '04 Tom Fool, Ghostzapper went off at 7/5 off the layoff. The 2nd choice in the race (field of 4)? Unforgettable Max at a ridiculously low 9/5. He finished a distant 3rd.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

UM also opened up the favorite over Ghostzapper, in the early betting of that race.

I vividly remember that day. My parents throw a gigantic 4th of July party every year....I blew it all off so I could watch Ghostzapper's 4yo debut, and bet a few other horses I really loved on the undercard.

To say my mother was pissed at me was an understatement.

I wasn't able to watch Candy Ride's American Handicap on July 4th '03, Left Bank's Tom Fool on July 4th '02, or Xtra Heat's Prioress on July 4th '01---I wasn't about to spend another July 4th with my family and nitwit relatives.

Sometimes you just have to put your foot down.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

haha.

I would think he'd be useful as an Illinois stallion at this point -- there isn't much standing in Illinois really. Cartwright was about as good as it got, and he's gone now.

Who knows....we'll see. I just wondered how the market/breeders react to general sibling success like that -- thanks B.

There is a good chance that he might stand in Illinois, unless he goes and wins a couple Graded races

Lewis Michael will benefit if he produces a couple of Grade I winners right off the bat. I don't believe that is likely, but you never know. The breeding industry is full of limiteless information.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Scav

There is a good chance that he might stand in Illinois, unless he goes and wins a couple Graded races

I actually thought after he ran that big one behind Sunriver (?) that he might keep going forward. He hasn't embarassed himself in any way -- ran big at Keeneland too, but he can't manage to get home in front in any of the big ones.

Then again I'm obviously a huge sucker for both of them....so I'm probably very biased on the whole thing.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I actually thought after he ran that big one behind Sunriver (?) that he might keep going forward. He hasn't embarassed himself in any way -- ran big at Keeneland too, but he can't manage to get home in front in any of the big ones.

Then again I'm obviously a huge sucker for both of them....so I'm probably very biased on the whole thing.

I wasn't actually saying that I don't think Lewis Micheal will end up as a stud somewhere...he very well may...I was only saying that the success of his sister probably won't make him more sought after by the larger outfits.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I don't get the biology of how the traits/success is passed down very well -- do you know why it wouldn't work vice versa for Lewis Michael?

No one knows it well. There are some basic rules to follow but genetics is an extraordinarily difficult thing to predict. Now you will get few admiting this but its the truth.

There is not one gene in the horse genome that anyone has related to racing success. And the mapping of the thoroughbred genome is very close to complete.

[slotdirt]

I wouldn't say Unforgettable Max was a dud on the track. He ran a few decent races.