she's really done enough...

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Amazing, simply amazing. Why even race anymore? She just turned 3 for chrissakes.

but really, she wasn't going to make the Oaks and since there are no other races for 3 YO fillies it's best to just breed her...and she probably has some soundness problem, so of course it makes sense to send her to a stallion who is known to pass along a few soundness problems of his own.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

but really, she wasn't going to make the Oaks and since there are no other races for 3 YO fillies it's best to just breed her...and she probably has some soundness problem, so of course it makes sense to send her to a stallion who is known to pass along a few soundness problems of his own.

there are just those little races called the Alabama, CCO of America, The Oaks may get more hype because of it's timing, the day before the Derby, but Alabama is actually more prestigious.

Originally Posted by boswd

there are just those little races called the Alabama, CCO of America, The Oaks may get more hype because of it's timing, the day before the Derby, but Alabama is actually more prestigious.

There's a little thing called sarcasm, too.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

There's a little thing called sarcasm, too.

LMAO

[randallscott35]

For Beth--who pm'd me about it---- and the rest who are looking for a Cobra Kai shirt of their own.

http://search.80stees.com/?category=...egory&u2=theme

[Gander]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It's kind of getting to be sad. The breeding business is gradually ruining the racing aspect of the sport. We've had numerous discussions about it, so I don't want to open up that can of worms again but retire a newly turned 3 year old filly because she won't make the Oaks?

And its only going to get worse. These filthy rich owners have yachts to buy and trust funds to fatten up for their kids. The sport has little chance to ever produce horses like my beloved Skip Away again. I feel bad for people who werent following horse racing during the 90s and instead look up to horses like Ghostzapper and Bernardini.

[King Glorious]

I know the when u say she's done enough, u were being sarcastic. But in reality, it's the truth, especially so when he comes to fillies. Once they gain black type, especially a grade one, they are on borrowed time on the track. She hasn't done enough to satisfy any fans but the breeders' have seen what they want.

[Gander]

She hasn't done enough to satisfy any fans

She couldnt possibly have any fans, shes run what 4 or 5 times?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I know the when u say she's done enough, u were being sarcastic. But in reality, it's the truth, especially so when he comes to fillies. Once they gain black type, especially a grade one, they are on borrowed time on the track. She hasn't done enough to satisfy any fans but the breeders' have seen what they want.

I think that is more true for the boys than the girls...a colt with a grade one can potentially make a fat paycheck in the first year that he goes to stud...a filly on the other hand won't earn a thing for close to 2 years...lets assume this filly gets in foal on the first or second cover...that sets her up for a feb foal in 08...the earliest that they might sell the foal is in the November sales...but more likely not til the yearling sales of 09...in the meantime you have stud fees vet fees and care for both mare and foal...personally I think that for a filly it makes more financial sense to run her if she is able

[DJK]

... and there are no other worthwhile races for 3 year old fillies.

i guess, soon, we'll just have to be content with gelding racing.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

..a filly on the other hand won't earn a thing for close to 2 years...lets assume this filly gets in foal on the first or second cover...that sets her up for a feb foal in 08...the earliest that they might sell the foal is in the November sales...but more likely not til the yearling sales of 09...in the meantime you have stud fees vet fees and care for both mare and foal...personally I think that for a filly it makes more financial sense to run her if she is able

Not if they get her in foal to the hottest young sire of the year, one who hasn't any runners yet but whose weanlings have gone for big bucks, then sell her in foal at the November breeding stock sale.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Not if they get her in foal to the hottest young sire of the year, one who hasn't any runners yet but whose weanlings have gone for big bucks, then sell her in foal at the November breeding stock sale.

that's true...but they just spent a lot for this filly...they aren't going to sell her in November

[KY_Sasquash]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It's kind of getting to be sad. The breeding business is gradually ruining the racing aspect of the sport. We've had numerous discussions about it, so I don't want to open up that can of worms again but retire a newly turned 3 year old filly because she won't make the Oaks?

While i agree that too many horses are whisked off to the breeding shed way too early, it's obvious that she suffered some type of an injury that is too much to overcome. She had maybe one work since the Oak Leaf, where she was a well beaten 2nd, at the end of September. Zayat has enough money that he couldve kept her in training and waited for the summer g1 races (the Alabama wouldve been perfect for her). Dont you think that Baffert wouldve made this evident if she had a minor injury? The quotes from Baffert and Sikura about her already doing enough are just a cover b/c they likely dont want to say that she was unsound (she was pushed pretty hard being a 2yo sales grad and she's a big filly), thus effecting her progeny in the sales ring.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by KY_Sasquash

While i agree that too many horses are whisked off to the breeding shed way too early, it's obvious that she suffered some type of an injury that is too much to overcome. She had maybe one work since the Oak Leaf, where she was a well beaten 2nd, at the end of September. Zayat has enough money that he couldve kept her in training and waited for the summer g1 races (the Alabama wouldve been d (she was pushed pretty hard being a 2yo sales grad and she's a big filly), perfect for her). Dont you think that Baffert wouldve made this evident if she had a minor injury? The quotes from Baffert and Sikura about her already doing enough are just a cover b/c they likely dont want to say that she was unsounthus effecting her progeny in the sales ring.

I think that you are right. I think that it became apparent that something was wrong when she didn't start around the BC races or a little after.

[Linny]

Some one connected to the filly (Zayat or an agent) said pre-sale that PA "would never be worth more" than she is now. To me that says they knew she had a hole in her you could drive a semi through. It might not have been an injury but possibly a chronic problem that would have made training on a nightmare. Of course selling her to someone who'll now enter her into the gene pool is the right thing to do.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by KY_Sasquash

While i agree that too many horses are whisked off to the breeding shed way too early, it's obvious that she suffered some type of an injury that is too much to overcome. She had maybe one work since the Oak Leaf, where she was a well beaten 2nd, at the end of September. Zayat has enough money that he couldve kept her in training and waited for the summer g1 races (the Alabama wouldve been perfect for her). Dont you think that Baffert wouldve made this evident if she had a minor injury? The quotes from Baffert and Sikura about her already doing enough are just a cover b/c they likely dont want to say that she was unsound (she was pushed pretty hard being a 2yo sales grad and she's a big filly), thus effecting her progeny in the sales ring.

I have actually heard rumors that she did have an injury...tendon I think...but horses come back from that all the time. I agree that she may have developed problems as a result of being pushed too hard too early...but that's just another problem within the entire ndustry...the fact that nobody wants to put the proper time into these animals...it's all about maximizing ROI in the shortest amount of time...Zayat got his $$, and now Sikura wants his turn...it's a sad state of affairs.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I have actually heard rumors that she did have an injury...tendon I think...but horses come back from that all the time. I agree that she may have developed problems as a result of being pushed too hard too early...but that's just another problem within the entire ndustry...the fact that nobody wants to put the proper time into these animals...it's all about maximizing ROI in the shortest amount of time...Zayat got his $$, and now Sikura wants his turn...it's a sad state of affairs.

Lots of horses do come back from tendon injuries. Not horses that are worth $1.8 million though.

If she had an injury there is a good chance she wont return to the races w/ the same ability and worth. She is worth much more in the breeding shed, and she has already made $1.8 mil in 07.

If I owned nice expensive horses like that and one came back with an injury after being a Grade I winner, no doubt she goes to the farm to begin her new career.

On another note, I know how important 2yo racing is to the industry, but I really do not agree with running horses before thier bones are completely formed (aka 2yo's). They should run the triple crown late in the 3yo season!

[Honu]

I was reading a book about Hollywood Park the other day ( a very interesting read) flipping thru the pages I noticed a section about the 1937 Derby winner and the 1937 Preakness winner having a rematch race is some stake the first or second year of Hollywood opening. As fate would have it the race didnt materialize because the winner of the Preakness bowed 2 days before the race but they didnt let the public in on it because it drew a crowd, it was announced hours before the race after the grandstand was full that the Preakness winner was scratched. The Derby winner went onto win the race but bowed shortly after . To me it is pretty apparant that horses werent that sturdy back then either , of course you had your freaks like Citation who ran 17 times a 2 yr old and so forth but all in all horses retired as late 3 yr olds and early 4 yr olds to stud just like they do now.
The biggest diffirence between now and then is the information highway, back then not every tom , dick , and harry sports writer had access to the backside let alone interviews with trainers on a daily basis. They didnt have computers and satellite radio shows with which to broadcast all the pitfalls of racing like they do now. I think if people go back and look at just the Triple Crown competitors of days gone by you might see that alot, not just a few horses that competeted in those races didnt race with much success or at all as 4 and 5 yr olds.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Lots of horses do come back from tendon injuries. Not horses that are worth $1.8 million though.

If she had an injury there is a good chance she wont return to the races w/ the same ability and worth. She is worth much more in the breeding shed, and she has already made $1.8 mil in 07.

If I owned nice expensive horses like that and one came back with an injury after being a Grade I winner, no doubt she goes to the farm to begin her new career.

On another note, I know how important 2yo racing is to the industry, but I really do not agree with running horses before thier bones are completely formed (aka 2yo's). They should run the triple crown late in the 3yo season!

yeah they do, they're called geldings

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

yeah they do, they're called geldings

lol... I would love to have a gelding worth 1.8 mil any day! think about how many fun times you would have at the track...

I wonder how much Cigar is worth today? I know he's chillin at the Horse Park or whatever, but if he was for sale what do u think he would bring for no breeding value?