California moves forward on stricter drug penalties

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't pay a lot of attention to California racing, but wasn't the " polytrack mandate " yet another kneejerk reaction, and not necessarily what was best for everyone?

What's the difference...we're all idiots...at least in California.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

This drug (Clenbuterol) not only builds muscle, but increases lung capacity and acts as a stimulant. This drug is constantly talked about on body building sites.They talk about it as if it is something to use along with the anabolic steroids they use. Be nice if the drug was just used for breathing problems.It has many "uses." That is the problem.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

This drug (Clenbuterol) not only builds muscle, but increases lung capacity and acts as a stimulant. This drug is constantly talked about on body building sites.They talk about it as if it is something to use along with the anabolic steroids they use. Be nice if the drug was just used for breathing problems.It has many "uses." That is the problem.

It's effectiveness with regard to anabolic effects in horses are questionable. It would act as a stimulant if given an hour before a race, 28 days is a joke. It is a LEGAL drug produced in the USA and used LEGALLY by humans with asthma. I dont think that people understand that if you take away all means to help horses in regards to physical issues both minor and major, you are hurting the smaller owners and trainers who can not afford to give their horses extended periods of rest all the time. Ban steroids totally and you increase the time it takes for horses recovering from surgery. Which costs more money which makes an already unstable investment more unprofitable. All that crap about helping the breed is a lot of BS.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Didn't they have trouble with teenagers using this drug to win awards at Livestock shows? Their steers were lookin' mighty good.Are you saying it is not used to put muscle on horses? Isn't this the reason they would want such a long withdrawal period before races?

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It's effectiveness with regard to anabolic effects in horses are questionable. It would act as a stimulant if given an hour before a race, 28 days is a joke. It is a LEGAL drug produced in the USA and used LEGALLY by humans with asthma. I dont think that people understand that if you take away all means to help horses in regards to physical issues both minor and major, you are hurting the smaller owners and trainers who can not afford to give their horses extended periods of rest all the time. Ban steroids totally and you increase the time it takes for horses recovering from surgery. Which costs more money which makes an already unstable investment more unprofitable. All that crap about helping the breed is a lot of BS.

In regards to physical issues,How about getting after the breeders for a better product?

[The Bid]

Scud

Clenbutorol is used to drop water weight in a cutting cycle, its not used to add mass, or strength for bodybuilders. Its strictly for reducing.

You do crash off of clen however, and I think horses crash off it as well.

Come to think of it Clen and DNP would be great for a rider to use to reduce, not a female though. The DNP is too strong, but the clen if used the right way is useful.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Scud

Clenbutorol is used to drop water weight in a cutting cycle, its not used to add mass, or strength for bodybuilders. Its strictly for reducing.

You do crash off of clen however, and I think horses crash off it as well.

Come to think of it Clen and DNP would be great for a rider to use to reduce, not a female though. The DNP is too strong, but the clen if used the right way is useful.

it's the latest diet craze in teenage girls...I read an article about a month ago ...I think some kid died using it

[The Bid]

Thats interested PJ and Scud. Ive never seen that article, but I know first hand the stuff is potent. I will still run a cycle of clen with a few different things but for anyone who doesnt know how to use it, its deadly. The DNP is worse. Hopefully the young highschool girls wont get their hands on that stuff.

Ive always thought horses crash just like I would off the clen. Which is why trianers who use the clen up until last cut off date are hard to take off. If you fail to continue the clen use the horse will be flat as a pancake.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Scud

Clenbutorol is used to drop water weight in a cutting cycle, its not used to add mass, or strength for bodybuilders. Its strictly for reducing.

You do crash off of clen however, and I think horses crash off it as well.

Come to think of it Clen and DNP would be great for a rider to use to reduce, not a female though. The DNP is too strong, but the clen if used the right way is useful.

So,it doesn't build new muscle? It decreases body fat(making one appear more muscular?) I have seen it called a synthetic growth enhancer.I would expect that to mean it adds muscle,but maybe it just reduces body fat.It is obvious that they want to avoid these effects,and it would probably be the reason they want the long(28 day) withdrawal period.My guess is they will negotiate this down to the 7 days that the Chucksta is talking about(as being reasonable.)BTW is this the drug that Scott Lake over-used so much that he is on the sidelines?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

So,it doesn't build new muscle? It decreases body fat(making one appear more muscular?) I have seen it called a synthetic growth enhancer.I would expect that to mean it adds muscle,but maybe it just reduces body fat.It is obvious that they want to avoid these effects,and it would probably be the reason they want the long(28 day) withdrawal period.My guess is they will negotiate this down to the 7 days that the Chucksta is talking about(as being reasonable.)BTW is this the drug that Scott Lake over-used so much that he is on the sidelines?

Is there an equivalent in horses of Human Growth Hormone (HGH) also used in bodybuilding & fitness competitions?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Scud

Clenbutorol is used to drop water weight in a cutting cycle, its not used to add mass, or strength for bodybuilders. Its strictly for reducing.

You do crash off of clen however, and I think horses crash off it as well.

Come to think of it Clen and DNP would be great for a rider to use to reduce, not a female though. The DNP is too strong, but the clen if used the right way is useful.

that's not actually true in humans...because the drug will stop working over time...but it will also phuck up your metabolism and consequently you gain weight and can't lose it...not to mention that in addition to buring excess fat there is evidence that it also burns excess protein which will actually contribute to muscle wasting, and of course long term use causes collagen fibers to infiltrate heart muscle and cause it to stiffen leading to reduced cardiac output and potential heart attack...bodybuilders who use it don't really understand the long term potential effects.

and the same could be said for horsemen who overuse it....

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

that's not actually true in humans...because the drug will stop working over time...but it will also phuck up your metabolism and consequently you gain weight and can't lose it...not to mention that in addition to buring excess fat there is evidence that it also burns excess protein which will actually contribute to muscle wasting, and of course long term use causes collagen fibers to infiltrate heart muscle and cause it to stiffen leading to reduced cardiac output and potential heart attack...bodybuilders who use it don't really understand the long term potential effects.

and the same could be said for horsemen who overuse it....

This is what happens when they take away their ephedrine!

[The Bid]

PJ,

Most people using that stuff are willing to risk the side effects for the quick results.

[smartyalex]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

This drug (Clenbuterol) not only builds muscle, but increases lung capacity and acts as a stimulant. This drug is constantly talked about on body building sites.They talk about it as if it is something to use along with the anabolic steroids they use. Be nice if the drug was just used for breathing problems.It has many "uses." That is the problem.

Thank you SCUD! Very well put!

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't pay a lot of attention to California racing, but wasn't the " polytrack mandate " yet another kneejerk reaction, and not necessarily what was best for everyone?

What's the difference...we're all idiots...at least in California.

The polytrack mandate may have been somewhat of a kneejerk reaction but it is the best thing that has ever happened here. Desperate measures are necessary when you have a desperate situation. It was just too difficult to keep horses sound on the surfaces out here. Maybe they could have put in new dirt tracks instead of polytrack, but I'm not going to complain. All I know is that polytrack is a huge improvement over what he had before. They had to do something to stop the bleeding. I don't know if this was the best way to stop the bleeding, but at least the bleeding has been stopped.