10/16: Keeneland (4th-8th)

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Bwahahahaha...

Machado asleep at the wheel!

And you think that gives the sport a good look? Seriously Steve, glad you cashed, but Machado should get six months or more for that mistake. We cannot, as horse players, allow our short term gain to invalidate a clear violation of ethical behavior.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

And you think that gives the sport a good look? Seriously Steve, glad you cashed, but Machado should get six months or more for that mistake. We cannot, as horse players, allow our short term gain to invalidate a clear violation of ethical behavior.

He failed to persevere/misjudged which wire they were using. Have a hard time believing there was more to it than that. He thought the race was wrapped up. Not the first time and won't be the last. Shoemaker stood up before the wire in the '57 Derby.

He deserves days, but 6 months seems a little over the top.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Kasept

He failed to persevere. Have a hard time believing there was more to it than that. He thought the race was wrapped up. Not the first time and won't be the last.

Before my rebuttal, please know that I follow your board and broadcast as you well know.

Punish the "failure to persevere" so hard, so unforgivingly, that there is never a jockey, trainer, or owner who ever considers defrauding the wagering public who funds the game again. Never allow the mistake to take place again.

How many times do we have to hear about the integrity of the HKJC (including on Derby Trail and your broadcasts) but when it comes to punishing those on the US circuits, we fall back on the "it was an honest mistake"?

Originally Posted by Kasept

Shoemaker stood up before the wire in the '57 Derby.

Oh for Christ's sake, who gives a good g-damn about what happened 67 years ago? Is the Shoemaker example offered to say, "yes, this is OK"?

Originally Posted by Kasept

He deserves days, but 6 months seems a little over the top.

Until you change this from being the cost of doing business to an absolute punishment, it does not change. How do you think the HKJC would handle this situation?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Punish the "failure to persevere" so hard, so unforgivingly, that there is never a jockey, trainer, or owner who ever considers defrauding the wagering public who funds the game again. Never allow the mistake to take place again.

Venues that use 2 wires are going to have this happen again no matter what the penalty.

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Oh for Christ's sake, who gives a good g-damn about what happened 67 years ago? Is the Shoemaker example offered to say, "yes, this is OK"?

The Shoemaker example is offered to show that even one of the best ever in the biggest race there is had a judgement lapse.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Venues that use 2 wires are going to have this happen again no matter what the penalty.

So, that makes it OK?

Because the jockeys, who are reading the Daily Racing Form like you and me, are just too stupid to know the difference between two different finish wires? And because they are providing jockey services at a track with two wires, the wagering public is supposed to say, "it happens"? Because the tracks cannot put a damned neon light on the finish wire? For goodness sakes, Steve, we are in the 21st century - let's have some accountability.

Either get rid of the two wire situations or punish those ruthlessly who are just too uninformed (translation : stupid) to handle the situation. As a member of the wagering public, I am tired of saying, "it happens".

Originally Posted by Kasept

The Shoemaker example is offered to show that even one of the best ever in the biggest race there is had a judgement lapse.

Sure, agreed completely. And, six months on the sidelines has the amazing effect of curing those lapses. I rest my case, Your Honor.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

How do you think the HKJC would handle this situation?

They gave Vincent Ho (Golden Sixty posterboy) a 10 meeting ban for standing up a millisecond early, resulting, in their opinion, in a DH rather than an outright win. They gave Vagner Borges a one-year ban for placing one bet on his own horse. For egregiously, albeit unintentionally, standing up 100m early? One can only guess...

The ban is not simply for making a mistake but for costing the bettors (i.e., those funding the sport) what they deserve. Unfortunately, mistakes come with consequences, although it seems American culture nowadays tries their best to turn a blind eye to it as much as possible. Steve may be happy because he cashed on the 7, but let's not forget that someone missed out on a single ticket P6 score. Perspectives might be different if the roles were reversed...

Originally Posted by Kasept

Venues that use 2 wires are going to have this happen again no matter what the penalty.

If it keeps happening, then any measures in place to prevent it are not sufficient enough, if there even are any in the first place. There is a big red marker placed at the 1/16th pole during first wire finish races to indicate the finish line. Is it that complicated to put a big green marker with writing in big letters "THIS IS NOT THE FINISH" for second wire finish routes? I don't know if it's even a good idea or how it would eventuate in practice, but something has to be done. I lost out on a 25-1 shot two years ago because Deshawn Parker thought it was a second, and not first, wire finish.

[Kitan]

Two separate incidents in the UK over the past couple of months:

Elizabeth Gale - 28 day ban for misjudging the 1/16th pole for the finish line and getting run down
Alec Voikhansky - 28 day ban for not riding over the final 5-10 strides and getting nabbed on the line

The precedent was there. What is a three day ban going to do? For all this talk of improved racing integrity, another "example" set way below the bar...