Get us out...or CNN out

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by dr. fager

Brian, I clearly did say it occurs...however a tactic of war?

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Of course it happens! It happens here all of the time, but guess what, it's not a tactic of war. While I'm at it, let me point out to you that Orlando has one of the highest murder and rape rates in the country. Is that a tactic of war too? I just think that to word it the way it was worded was inaccurate...

Sudan.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Sudan.

I wouldn't consider that modern war. Guess who is the peacekeeping force?


Peace is the only solution to the suffering of the Sudanese people. Recent efforts by the U.S. Special Envoy for Peace in Sudan,

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by dr. fager

I wouldn't consider that modern war. Guess who is the peacekeeping force?


Peace is the only solution to the suffering of the Sudanese people. Recent efforts by the U.S. Special Envoy for Peace in Sudan,

What qualifies as "modern" war, if not a war occurring at this very moment?

I've got to get that clarified before i can comment any further, because if we don't even see the word "modern" in the same way, then it's pointless to further talk about Sudan even though it's the single best example out there.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

What qualifies as "modern" war, if not a war occurring at this very moment?

I've got to get that clarified before i can comment any further, because if we don't even see the word "modern" in the same way, then it's pointless to further talk about Sudan even though it's the single best example out there.

I'm not talking that it occurs in the modern era....

War is ugly, I don't like it...so don't mistake me for a war monger. Modern...rules of engagement, ethical treatment of POW's...etc. Geneva convention.

and yes I'm aware some of these statutes have been broken by our own country.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by dr. fager

I'm not talking that it occurs in the modern era....

War is ugly, I don't like it...so don't mistake me for a war monger. Modern...rules of engagement, ethical treatment of POW's...etc. Geneva convention.

and yes I'm aware some of these statutes have been broken by our own country.

that's where we're not connecting here, is that your definition of modern war renders this entire conversation moot. if, in order to be a modern war, people have to follow those rules -- then there is no such thing as modern war because that will never be entirely achieved by any army from any country in a full-fledged war. In your definition of modern war, rape does not exist because everyone is polite and follows the "rules" -- so because rape does still exist as a tactic of war, what then do we consider to be modern war?

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

that's where we're not connecting here, is that your definition of modern war renders this entire conversation moot. if, in order to be a modern war, people have to follow those rules -- then there is no such thing as modern war because that will never be entirely achieved by any army from any country in a full-fledged war. In your definition of modern war, rape does not exist because everyone is polite and follows the "rules" -- so because rape does still exist as a tactic of war, what then do we consider to be modern war?

I think we're closer than it appears, of course it can't be entirely achieved, but is the Sudan different as a civilized nation and does that civil war have anything in common with war in Iraq, other than it is ugly and sensless? I think it's clear it's ordered in Sudan. Are the minority of US soldiers that commit rape doing this to gain a tatical advantage on the enemy? Or is it a result of the stress and horror, maybe underlying character in some?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by dr. fager

I think we're closer than it appears, of course it can't be entirely achieved, but is the Sudan different as a civilized nation and does that civil war have anything in common with war in Iraq, other than it is ugly and sensless? I think it's clear it's ordered in Sudan. Are the minority of US soldiers that commit rape doing this to gain a tatical advantage on the enemy? Or is it a result of the stress and horror, maybe underlying character in some?

I don't think the wars are too similar, but atrocities are atrocities no matter which way you cut it.

I wouldn't purport that American soldiers who rape Iraqis do so in order to get a leg-up on the enemy. In Sudan, the case is strikingly different. Rape embodies the concept of a war tactic. Rape is a humiliating, dehumanizing experience. Watching enemy soldiers rape one's wife creates a very distinct tactical advantage by changing the emotional state of those people. Multiply this by the thousands and thousands of rapes that are occurring, and you have rape being used as a tactic of war.

It's just not a tactic that American soldiers use.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

that's where we're not connecting here, is that your definition of modern war renders this entire conversation moot. if, in order to be a modern war, people have to follow those rules -- then there is no such thing as modern war because that will never be entirely achieved by any army from any country in a full-fledged war. In your definition of modern war, rape does not exist because everyone is polite and follows the "rules" -- so because rape does still exist as a tactic of war, what then do we consider to be modern war?

Brian,
Sometimes we get bogged down about splitting hairs.
Is it worse to rape someone or just kill them?
Maybe burning with napalm makes sense, or cluster bombs, or mines.
Do we really need to qualify the level of barbarism to make it saleable?
Does it make us feel more righteous?
Some people have numbed their consience to the tragedy.
They'll dig their heels in an try to continue to convince others of the validity of the actions they support.
Yet, they remain silent on the question of "victory".
Cemetaries are very quiet places.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Brian,
Sometimes we get bogged down about splitting hairs.
Is it worse to rape someone or just kill them?
Maybe burning with napalm makes sense, or cluster bombs, or mines.
Do we really need to qualify the level of barbarism to make it saleable?
Does it make us feel more righteous?
Some people have numbed their consience to the tragedy.
They'll dig their heels in an try to continue to convince others of the validity of the actions they support.
Yet, they remain silent on the question of "victory".
Cemetaries are very quiet places.

you've got me all wrong DTS, you really do. But I've always liked you since ESPN....your compassion is relentless and that's admirable.

I'm really sorry you feel the way you do about me...I want them home too.

If someone could quote me on this, I'd appreciate it, I think he has me on ignore.