Who Will Be The Favorite? What Price?

[cal828]

I think I'd be shocked if Smile Happy, Tiz The Bomb, Tawny Port or Cyberknife won it (even if the latter two are trained by Brad "who can do no wrong" Cox). However, I should mention I'm the guy who said in notes to self about Mine that Bird, "has no chance, does not belong in this race."

Originally Posted by cal828

I think I'd be shocked if Smile Happy, Tiz The Bomb, Tawny Port or Cyberknife won it (even if the latter two are trained by Brad "who can do no wrong" Cox. However, I should mention I'm the guy who said in notes to self about Mine that Bird, "has no chance, does not belong in this race."

See that's exactly why I think this is such a GREAT Derby. Two that I'm most interested in are CYBERKNIFE and SMILE HAPPY.

Gonna be fun.

I just looked at THORO-GRAPH of the Derby Probables.

I only have three things to say....

o
m
g

Make it about 16 with a shot!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I just looked at THORO-GRAPH of the Derby Probables.

I only have three things to say....

o
m
g

Make it about 16 with a shot!

They are talented lightly raced colts by definition many have a license to improve.. You have to break some eggs

Originally Posted by cal828

I think I'd be shocked if Smile Happy, Tiz The Bomb, Tawny Port or Cyberknife won it (even if the latter two are trained by Brad "who can do no wrong" Cox). However, I should mention I'm the guy who said in notes to self about Mine that Bird, "has no chance, does not belong in this race."

When MINE THAT BIRD was being considered I had Rosario's book in Ca. Chip Wooley offered me the call. I said what the heck. He's probably got no shot but let's give the jock the experience of riding in the Derby. So I said ok. We'll ride him.

I asked him where to send the invoice for the flight and hotel.

He said we're not paying for any of that. If you wanna ride him. You can. If not I'll get a local rider.

The rest is history!

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

When MINE THAT BIRD was being considered I had Rosario's book in Ca. Chip Wooley offered me the call. I said what the heck. He's probably got no shot but let's give the jock the experience of riding in the Derby. So I said ok. We'll ride him.

I asked him where to send the invoice for the flight and hotel.

He said we're not paying for any of that. If you wanna ride him. You can. If not I'll get a local rider.

The rest is history!

I’m hesitant to acknowledge this look at me nonsense….but you gave up a mount in the Derby because you guys were too cheap to pay for a hotel and plane? He had no other mounts on the undercard?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’m hesitant to acknowledge this look at me nonsense….but you gave up a mount in the Derby because you guys were too cheap to pay for a hotel and plane? He had no other mounts on the undercard?

Wait, you mean the entire thread isn't look at me nonsense? I'm so confused.

[moses]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’m hesitant to acknowledge this look at me nonsense….but you gave up a mount in the Derby because you guys were too cheap to pay for a hotel and plane? He had no other mounts on the undercard?

Oddly enough, Rosario had a new agent by the next year’s derby.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by moses

Oddly enough, Rosario had a new agent by the next year’s derby.

To be fair, I think that was because of something else Vic did.

[moses]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

To be fair, I think that was because of something else Vic did.

As curious as I am, I probably don’t want to know.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

To be fair, I think that was because of something else Vic did.

It was. I went to work for Martin Garcia as well as Joel.

At first I don't think Joel minded.

But Ronny Ebanks and Joe Ferrer convinced him he should mind.

I'd often ask Joel if he was cool with it. And to tell me if he wasn't I'd drop Garcia.

He said it was no problem.

When Garcia won the Big Cap on MISREMEMBERED and Joel finished off the board on St. Trinians. He made the change.

I read the situation wrong.

Truth be told. I was totally burnt out. Didn't mind that much.

Never fun to get fired from anything. But my body was telling me to slow down. And so was my wife.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

When Garcia won the Big Cap on MISREMEMBERED and Joel finished off the board on St. Trinians. He made the change.

The best part of this was some genius convinced the trainer of St. Trinians, a mare who was riding a 4 or 5 race win streak (all by open lengths) since coming to the US, to run her against males and stretch out an additional 1.5 furlongs in the Big Cap rather than waiting a week for the Santa Margarita.

In her prior start, St. Trinians had dusted BC Distaff winner Life Is Sweet (along with the place horse, Spinster winner Mushka) as well as Zardana, who one race later upset Rachel Alexandra in her 4yo debut at Fair Grounds.

I guess none of that was convincing enough to try Zenyatta coming off a 4 month layoff.

The connections were vindicated in the end, though. Zenyatta beat by a length or so the same horses in the Santa Margarita that St. Trinians was beating by 4-5 lengths. So it was wise to avoid a head-to-head matchup.

With an additional start under her belt (and with St. Trinians being knocked off form in the Big Cap), Zenyatta was also able to prove a 1/2 length best over St. Trinians a couple of months later in the Vanity. With such a dominating win, no one could be disappointed that there wasn't the early matchup at Santa Anita. And it's not like people were interested in some sort of rival for Zenyatta within her own division (since her connections refused to target the plentiful open 10 furlong races in CA).

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’m hesitant to acknowledge this look at me nonsense….but you gave up a mount in the Derby because you guys were too cheap to pay for a hotel and plane? He had no other mounts on the undercard?

A hotel and plane on that late notice would have been about $7500.

He didn't have anything on the undercard on Saturday. Only one longshot to ride in an allowance race on Friday.

With the heavy heads leaving for the weekend we were on a TON of favorites in So. Col.

This was before Joel was the dominant force he is now. He was just finding his way in Ca.

Bejarano and Gomez were riding a bunch of winners there too.
It was either spend $7500 and ride a 50-1. Or make $30,000 at SA.

It was a business decision. But IMO not a matter of being cheap.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

A hotel and plane on that late notice would have been about $7500.

He didn't have anything on the undercard on Saturday. Only one longshot to ride in an allowance race on Friday.

With the heavy heads leaving for the weekend we were on a TON of favorites in So. Col.

This was before Joel was the dominant force he is now. He was just finding his way in Ca.

Bejarano and Gomez were riding a bunch of winners there too.
It was either spend $7500 and ride a 50-1. Or make $30,000 at SA.

It was a business decision. But IMO not a matter of being cheap.

So why not just say....it didn't make sense to ride Mine That Bird and give up the business we had in CA?

Frankly, the better story is "I told Chip that Joel would fire me if I gave up live mounts to go ride that ridiculous horse." Nobody would have blamed you for that.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So why not just say....it didn't make sense to ride Mine That Bird and give up the business we had in CA?

Frankly, the better story is "I told Chip that Joel would fire me if I gave up live mounts to go ride that ridiculous horse." Nobody would have blamed you for that.

I thought that's what I was saying.

The way it literally went.

Brad Pegram was talking to Wolley who asked about Mike Smith. He was holding out for something better.

He handed me the phone. I told Wolley we'd go. Called him back to get a CC card or address for the invoice.

He said they weren't paying expenses.

Joel and I decided it was better to stay put.