3 year old Champion

King Glorious · #1 11-12-2021, 09:57 AM

Also, don’t know where you got that I said they can only put in one good race a year. But I do know that trainers don’t train their horses to peak in lesser races when the bigger ones are their main objectives. Like I said, if you believe he was as cranked and prepared for the Southwest as he was for the Derby, we have nothing else to talk about on this subject.

Dahoss · #2 11-12-2021, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Also, don’t know where you got that I said they can only put in one good race a year. But I do know that trainers don’t train their horses to peak in lesser races when the bigger ones are their main objectives. Like I said, if you believe he was as cranked and prepared for the Southwest as he was for the Derby, we have nothing else to talk about on this subject.

Isn't the point (that he has repeated a few times now) that you're speculating on what races he was "cranked" for? Sure, Cox probably targeted the Derby and Classic, but I can't imagine training horses is as simple as just targeting races and tightening the screws for the big ones.

Who cares what races he was the most fit for and what races he wasn't? That is all subjective. At the end of the day all that matters is how they performed in said races.

King Glorious · #3 11-12-2021, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Isn't the point (that he has repeated a few times now) that you're speculating on what races he was "cranked" for? Sure, Cox probably targeted the Derby and Classic, but I can't imagine training horses is as simple as just targeting races and tightening the screws for the big ones.

Who cares what races he was the most fit for and what races he wasn't? That is all subjective. At the end of the day all that matters is how they performed in said races.

Yes, that is his point but no, I don't agree that it's not worth considering. It's just as with any other sport. You train to peak for the biggest games, the championship level events. The Saints beat the Buccaneers twice in the regular season but Tampa didn't bring Brady there to be at his best for those games. They wanted to peak in the playoffs and when they played NO in the playoffs, Brady won. Maybe you guys believe that if one horse beats the other in the Swale and Holy Bull but then the other horse turns the tables in the Florida Derby and Kentucky Derby, that makes them level. I don't. The latter won the more important races and that carries more weight in my book. I don't think it's realistic to think all races are equal and they want to win all of them equally as bad. So since we all know some races are more important than others, I don't think it's silly to think that a trainer would have their horse more prepared for the more important races and I think that it means something when a horse is set to run their best and they lose when all others are set to run their best too.

Dahoss · #4 11-12-2021, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Yes, that is his point but no, I don't agree that it's not worth considering. It's just as with any other sport. You train to peak for the biggest games, the championship level events. The Saints beat the Buccaneers twice in the regular season but Tampa didn't bring Brady there to be at his best for those games. They wanted to peak in the playoffs and when they played NO in the playoffs, Brady won. Maybe you guys believe that if one horse beats the other in the Swale and Holy Bull but then the other horse turns the tables in the Florida Derby and Kentucky Derby, that makes them level. I don't. The latter won the more important races and that carries more weight in my book. I don't think it's realistic to think all races are equal and they want to win all of them equally as bad. So since we all know some races are more important than others, I don't think it's silly to think that a trainer would have their horse more prepared for the more important races and I think that it means something when a horse is set to run their best and they lose when all others are set to run their best too.

For a guy who doesn’t view all races as equal you sure aren’t giving much credence to the Belmont, Jim Dandy and Travers. Which is odd because you seem to think the worst running of the Kelso of all time and the worst running of the BC Dirt Mile earned Life Is Good a championship.

Makes perfect sense. Almost as much sense as the football analogy.

RolloTomasi · #5 11-12-2021, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Like I said, if you believe he was as cranked and prepared for the Southwest as he was for the Derby, we have nothing else to talk about on this subject.

If you believe Life is Good remotely had anything like a championship campaign, we have nothing else to talk about on this subject. He lost his biggest test of the year (the King's Bishop). The Kelso field might have been worse than any of those exhibition races Forego and Seattle Slew used to launch their campaigns back in the '70s. The Dirt Mile this year looked like it should have been carded at The Downs at Alberqueque. Maybe if he wins the Cigar Mile AND the Malibu you might be on to something.

Mandaloun or Rombauer make more sense than him.

King Glorious · #6 11-12-2021, 08:27 PM

No, I don't believe that Life is Good had a championship campaign. But I do believe that he was by far the most talented and with no other candidate separating themselves in my book, I go with the most talented. If either Essential Quality or Medina's Spirit would have won the Classic, I would have picked that horse.

RolloTomasi · #7 11-12-2021, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

No, I don't believe that Life is Good had a championship campaign. But I do believe that he was by far the most talented and with no other candidate separating themselves in my book, I go with the most talented. If either Essential Quality or Medina's Spirit would have won the Classic, I would have picked that horse.

In what way is Life is Good the most talented 3yo? Because he can run the fastest 6 furlongs (of course Jackie's Warrior was equally as fast if not faster)? Because he's an uncontrollable run-off that has trouble running straight down the stretch? Because he has had the most soundness issues? Because he failed to start in a classic or any route race of consequence?

You have all these grandiose and nitpicky theories of how a horse is trained and what races are most important and yet it all goes out the window because a horse won some second tier races in sensational fashion.

Shouldn't Flightline be your 3yo champion?

Dahoss · #8 11-12-2021, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

In what way is Life is Good the most talented 3yo? Because he can run the fastest 6 furlongs (of course Jackie's Warrior was equally as fast if not faster)? Because he's an uncontrollable run-off that has trouble running straight down the stretch? Because he has had the most soundness issues? Because he failed to start in a classic or any route race of consequence?

You have all these grandiose and nitpicky theories of how a horse is trained and what races are most important and yet it all goes out the window because a horse won some second tier races in sensational fashion.

Shouldn't Flightline be your 3yo champion?

That’s what it all boils down to. The flashier the win, the more credit he gives it. Competition doesn’t matter. Race dynamics don’t matter. Just win by open lengths and you’ve earned a spot in his signature.

blackthroatedwind · #9 11-13-2021, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Shouldn't Flightline be your 3yo champion?

I was about to ask the same question.

Kitan · #10 11-13-2021, 12:34 PM

St Mark's Basilica or Baaeed

Dahoss · #11 11-13-2021, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitan

St Mark's Basilica or Baaeed

King Glorious · #12 01-08-2022, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

In what way is Life is Good the most talented 3yo? Because he can run the fastest 6 furlongs (of course Jackie's Warrior was equally as fast if not faster)? Because he's an uncontrollable run-off that has trouble running straight down the stretch? Because he has had the most soundness issues? Because he failed to start in a classic or any route race of consequence?

You have all these grandiose and nitpicky theories of how a horse is trained and what races are most important and yet it all goes out the window because a horse won some second tier races in sensational fashion.

Shouldn't Flightline be your 3yo champion?

I don’t think Flightline should be the 3yo champion but I’d like to ask you if you think he is the best 3yo? Not best resume but best horse?

RolloTomasi · #13 01-09-2022, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don’t think Flightline should be the 3yo champion but I’d like to ask you if you think he is the best 3yo? Not best resume but best horse?

Sprinters are always inferior to routers. Stamina is a key component of the classic Thoroughbred. That's why back in the days of logic and common sense there were no Grade 1 sprints except for maybe the Vosburgh.

That's not to say Flightline is a sprinter, but he has only run in sprints up to this point. And just because he is by Tapit or has won geared down in sprints that weren't even conducted like true sprints (more like team workouts) doesn't mean he is certain to stretch out with no problems.

On top of that his inexperience and lack of consistent racing makes him vulnerable in a route even if he is ultimately capable of it.

He might be no better than Rail Trip, who was a fine racehorse with a somewhat similar late-starting profile (until his career was needless de-Railed by his silly owner). I highly doubt he is as good as Formal Gold and certainly won't come close to emulating that one's 4yo campaign.

In this day and age, given the silly hype that has been showered on this horse and his connections, Flightline will be retired with a bullet if he happens to get beat like Formal Gold did in the 1996 Pennsylvania Derby or Rail Trip in the 2009 Mervyn LeRoy, even though it wasn't the end of the world for the latter two.

So let's hope he doesn't struggle in his next start if he happens to race before the Met Mile.

King Glorious · #14 01-09-2022, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Sprinters are always inferior to routers. Stamina is a key component of the classic Thoroughbred. That's why back in the days of logic and common sense there were no Grade 1 sprints except for maybe the Vosburgh.

That's not to say Flightline is a sprinter, but he has only run in sprints up to this point. And just because he is by Tapit or has won geared down in sprints that weren't even conducted like true sprints (more like team workouts) doesn't mean he is certain to stretch out with no problems.

On top of that his inexperience and lack of consistent racing makes him vulnerable in a route even if he is ultimately capable of it.

He might be no better than Rail Trip, who was a fine racehorse with a somewhat similar late-starting profile (until his career was needless de-Railed by his silly owner). I highly doubt he is as good as Formal Gold and certainly won't come close to emulating that one's 4yo campaign.

In this day and age, given the silly hype that has been showered on this horse and his connections, Flightline will be retired with a bullet if he happens to get beat like Formal Gold did in the 1996 Pennsylvania Derby or Rail Trip in the 2009 Mervyn LeRoy, even though it wasn't the end of the world for the latter two.

So let's hope he doesn't struggle in his next start if he happens to race before the Met Mile.

So then you think Essential Quality is the best horse? Do you also think Hot Rod Charlie and Midnight Bourbon, Mandaloun, and Rombauer are all better horses than Life is Good and Flightline?