Perspective

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I saw this posted somewhere else and thought it was interesting enough to share:

We are going to possibly have the undefeated Arkansas Derby winner, the undefeated Blue Grass Stakes winner, and the undefeated Santa Anita Derby winner square off in the Ky Derby. Thirty years ago it would have been considered an unfathomable, unprecedented matchup of titans. This year it's pretty much considered....meh, not much to talk about.

Perspective? More like amnesia.

In 2018, the unbeaten Justify (Santa Anita Derby) beat the unbeaten Magnum Moon (Arkansas Derby) and the once-beaten Audible (Florida Derby) and 2yo champion Good Magic (Blue Grass).

In 2015, the unbeaten American Pharaoh (Arkansas Derby) beat the unbeaten Dortmund (Santa Anita Derby) and the unbeaten Materiality (Florida Derby) and once-beaten Carpe Diem (Blue Grass).

This would have been "unfathomable" thirty years ago because a horse with just 5 starts under his belt would have been considered "lightly raced", horses that made their career debuts in January would have had no chance, and a horse coming out of turf races would have been from Europe. A lot has changed (for the negative) in the past 30 years.

Also, both Bob Baffert and John Sadler couldn't train a horse to go past 6 furlongs back in the early 1990s if their lives depended on it. Sadler running anything in something other than a claimer or a maiden claimer would be almost unheard of back then. Brad Cox was probably playing Nintendo...

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Perspective? More like amnesia.

In 2018, the unbeaten Justify (Santa Anita Derby) beat the unbeaten Magnum Moon (Arkansas Derby) and the once-beaten Audible (Florida Derby) and 2yo champion Good Magic (Blue Grass).

In 2015, the unbeaten American Pharaoh (Arkansas Derby) beat the unbeaten Dortmund (Santa Anita Derby) and the unbeaten Materiality (Florida Derby) and once-beaten Carpe Diem (Blue Grass).

This would have been "unfathomable" thirty years ago because a horse with just 5 starts under his belt would have been considered "lightly raced", horses that made their career debuts in January would have had no chance, and a horse coming out of turf races would have been from Europe. A lot has changed (for the negative) in the past 30 years.

Also, both Bob Baffert and John Sadler couldn't train a horse to go past 6 furlongs back in the early 1990s if their lives depended on it. Sadler running anything in something other than a claimer or a maiden claimer would be almost unheard of back then. Brad Cox was probably playing Nintendo...

You forgot to include that the beat the Jeff Ruby winners too.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

You forgot to include that the beat the Jeff Ruby winners too.

The Spiral/Jeff Ruby winners from 2015 and 2018 didn't compete in the Kentucky Derby.

Back in the '90s, the Jim Beam was nothing to shake a stick at. Winners included Broad Brush, Summer Squall, Hansel, Lil E. Tee, and Prairie Bayou.

"Unbeaten" usually just means a horse hasn't consistently faced good competition and/or is lightly raced.

In the context of the Derby, 20-30 years ago, being unbeaten was the kiss of death. See Indian Charlie, Private Terms, Mister Frisky, Air Forbes Won.

I'd rather see horses with records like Forty Niner, Gulch, Bet Twice, Alysheba, Easy Goer, Snow Chief, Chief's Crown, Tank's Prospect, Swale, Summer Squall, Holy Bull, Thunder Gulch, Silver Charm, Best Pal, Fly So Free, Cryptoclearance, Came Home, Unbridled's Song, Regal Classic, Hansel, Pine Bluff, etc. heading into the Derby then some recent 7-furlong maiden winner who has his stud deal all worked out the evening before his first Grade 1 race.

[King Glorious]

First, I was accused of having a West Coast inferiority complex because i fail to recognize the Jeff Ruby as a major prep. How dare you tell me that the winners of the race from 2015 to 2018 didn't even run in the race. That would support my position and we can't have that. Second, how dare you leave off Event of the Year. He was going to win the Derby in 1998. Yes, indeed the Jim Beam used to be a much bigger race.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

First, I was accused of having a West Coast inferiority complex because i fail to recognize the Jeff Ruby as a major prep. How dare you tell me that the winners of the race from 2015 to 2018 didn't even run in the race. That would support my position and we can't have that.

Ah...I fell for it. I like what you've done there.

This thread is all about you...again. Good thing I completed a psychiatric residency at the Hoffer-Mandhoff-Neier Clinic in Belgium (or the Netherlands).

Let's see: Forget the West Coast inferiority complex, I'm going with a primary inferiority complex.

In 2015, Dubai Sky had won 4 in a row and was a full brother to Twirling Candy but broke a hind leg before the Derby. In 2018, Blended Citizen tried to run in the Derby but didn't draw in. He won the Peter Pan instead.

Second, how dare you leave off Event of the Year. He was going to win the Derby in 1998.

On second thought, make that a northern California inferiority complex.

Event of the Year wasn't winning anything; his knee was broke. It would have been a disaster if he ran in the Derby.

Yes, indeed the Jim Beam used to be a much bigger race.

So now it's back to being a major prep?

Ok, we also have an overlying bipolar disorder here.

Maybe you're just one of those actors paid to help medical students diagnose.

What's next?

Cirrhosis of the liver? PCP addiction?

Any burning sensation during urination?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

?

Cirrhosis of the liver? PCP addiction?

Where did you study Nephrology? Can you help me?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Where did you study Nephrology? Can you help me?

I would be diagnosed with a God or messiah complex if I thought I could really help you.

Try cranberry juice or a lobotomy.