2021 Hall of Fame Eligible Nominees

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Simply saying Groovy didn't win half of his starts, and not knowing why, is ( frankly ) embarrassing, and disqualifies you from even discussing his merits.

Assuming that I don't know why is your right. Doesn't change the fact though. And his two biggest opportunities on the national stage, he was beaten in both of them. I bet Groovy in 1986 because it was my first year in racing and I fell to all the hype. Once I learned the difference in 1987 between NY speed and California speed and knew that if he faced the kind of pace pressure he would in California rather than what he faced in NY, I didn't make the same mistake twice. And before you mention it, yes, I know he won the Ancient Title prior to the BC beating the great Rosies KT and Sun Master, who he drilled several more times in NY.

If Serena Williams won every preliminary match leading to the majors, great. But the majors are the biggest stages and she can't lose each time she gets on the biggest stage and just be forgiven because of what she did on the smaller ones.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

But the majors are the biggest stages and she can't lose each time she gets on the biggest stage and just be forgiven because of what she did on the smaller ones.

Well, it worked out pretty well for Housebuster. He won 2 Eclipse awards and made the HOF despite losing most of his major tests each season. Even got lit up by a Derby winner in a sprint.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Well, it worked out pretty well for Housebuster. He won 2 Eclipse awards and made the HOF despite losing most of his major tests each season. Even got lit up by a Derby winner in a sprint.

Again, I'm not saying that Kona Gold is not deserving based on who is already in there. So are Safely Kept, Housebuster, and Groovy. Since they are in, Kona Gold deserves to be in. Blind Luck deserves it too. I'm saying that if I had my perfect world and could strip it down and start over, none of them would be in. My position on any hall of fame is if you have to "make a case" for someone, it's an automatic no. Like, when you say Michael Jordan, you don't have to go look at his resume and make a case for him. That's an automatic, 100% yes. Same with Tom Brady. Same with Secretariat and Spectacular Bid. I think American Pharoah fits in. I don't need to look at his resume to be reminded how great he was cause I won't forget what I saw. I want the hall to be reserved for the elite of the elite.

[Dahoss]

Make it stop please. The ONE time American Pharaoh got tested he got run down by Keen Ice.

You can’t compare other sports to racing when it comes to the HOF. They are not relatable at all.

Not to be rude, but who cares what your HOF would look like? That’s not the discussion. The discussion s whether or not Kona Gold or Blind Luck should be in the current HOF.

[blackthroatedwind]

I just looked up Groovy's record after he ran in the Wood-KY Derby-Preakness....he was 10 for 15, and at races less than one mile he was 10 for 14.

Yes, he ran in the Derby and Preakness....and survived to tell the tale. He was a truly amazing horse, despite his 12 for 26 career record.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I just looked up Groovy's record after he ran in the Wood-KY Derby-Preakness....he was 10 for 15, and at races less than one mile he was 10 for 14.

Yes, he ran in the Derby and Preakness....and survived to tell the tale. He was a truly amazing horse, despite his 12 for 26 career record.

You get penalized for running in too many races apparently.

Groovy's real crime was not starting the 1987 campaign sooner. Could have got revenge on Ogygian (who beat Groovy 3 times at 2 and 3) in the Bold Ruler. You beat one of those oft-injured superhorses that people go gaga for and you've punched your HOF ticket.

If Groovy had registered a third 130+ Beyer Speed Figure it probably would have helped his case, too...

[moses]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Again, I'm not saying that Kona Gold is not deserving based on who is already in there. So are Safely Kept, Housebuster, and Groovy. Since they are in, Kona Gold deserves to be in. Blind Luck deserves it too. I'm saying that if I had my perfect world and could strip it down and start over, none of them would be in. My position on any hall of fame is if you have to "make a case" for someone, it's an automatic no. Like, when you say Michael Jordan, you don't have to go look at his resume and make a case for him. That's an automatic, 100% yes. Same with Tom Brady. Same with Secretariat and Spectacular Bid. I think American Pharoah fits in. I don't need to look at his resume to be reminded how great he was cause I won't forget what I saw. I want the hall to be reserved for the elite of the elite.

I don’t think there is a single HOF that operate in that manner. To your point about Serena Williams, Andy Roddick has only one grand slam title but he was inducted into the tennis HOF a few years ago. When his time comes, I’m sure a guy like Andy Murray will be inducted as well. He has 3 grand slam titles but he also played during the same era as Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic. No one will hold that against him.

[King Glorious]

But it should be held against him. He doesn’t belong in the same hall as Nadal, Federer, and the Joker. This has nothing to do with how good he is. He’s not in the same class as those others. I feel like you devalue the greatness of the elite when you include the non-elite. Blind Luck, as good as she was, wasn’t in the same class with Go for Wand, Personal Ensign, Zenyatta, and Bayakoa.

But hey, this is why they have votes. To allow for opinions. If I have to look up your record or accomplishments or make a case for you, it’s a no. A hall of famer, to me, would be a horse or person that if you go around the room, everyone says yes right away. No looking up anything or thinking about anything.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

A hall of famer, to me, would be a horse or person that if you go around the room, everyone says yes right away. No looking up anything or thinking about anything.

I think this is the exact same line of reasoning that got Kenny Bania a TV pilot on Seinfeld...

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I think this is the exact same line of reasoning that got Kenny Bania a TV pilot on Seinfeld...

I laughed..

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I think this is the exact same line of reasoning that got Kenny Bania a TV pilot on Seinfeld...

It's GOLD!!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I think this is the exact same line of reasoning that got Kenny Bania a TV pilot on Seinfeld...

I have a feeling that you'd be one of those guys that votes no on a guy getting into the baseball hall of fame for nine straight years then in his 10th year of eligibility, you vote yes. I never understand that. A guy gets 50% of the vote one year, then it keeps going up each year til he gets the 75% needed even though with each year, he's getting further and further from his playing days. Or worse, a guy goes the full 10 years not getting voted in by 75% of the writers and then gets voted in by another panel. How can you not know if a guy is a hall of famer?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Assuming that I don't know why is your right. Doesn't change the fact though. And his two biggest opportunities on the national stage, he was beaten in both of them. I bet Groovy in 1986 because it was my first year in racing and I fell to all the hype. Once I learned the difference in 1987 between NY speed and California speed and knew that if he faced the kind of pace pressure he would in California rather than what he faced in NY, I didn't make the same mistake twice. And before you mention it, yes, I know he won the Ancient Title prior to the BC beating the great Rosies KT and Sun Master, who he drilled several more times in NY.

If Serena Williams won every preliminary match leading to the majors, great. But the majors are the biggest stages and she can't lose each time she gets on the biggest stage and just be forgiven because of what she did on the smaller ones.

This is particularly funny given he drilled Phone Trick....a CA speed horse. He also beat the great Turkoman, as a 3YO, at 7F. Your revisionist, result oriented, history is sorely lacking.

Since you know why his overall record is a poor way to evaluate him, feel free to explain why. Otherwise, I don't think you know.