The Weak and Confused: Charlatan Didn’t Win a Bloated Race in Saudi Arabia

[Betsy]

Rollo, who wrote the original article? Privman ? I’m cracking up at your take!

I’m not a fan of Charlatan, and I was impressed by his gameness, but not every tough beat is reminiscent of Seattle Slew (my favorite horse ever, after Man o’War), lol. Nothing about this race is similar to the ‘78 Gold Cup - somehow this racing scribe managed to downplay Slew’s performance (“he never gave up” - what a bland description of his race - thank you for your colorful description, lol).

Charlatan is brilliant, but to say that he has a long way to go before being compared to Slew is putting it mildly.

[robfla]

Originally Posted by Betsy

Rollo, who wrote the original article? Privman ? I’m cracking up at your take!

I’m not a fan of Charlatan, and I was impressed by his gameness, but not every tough beat is reminiscent of Seattle Slew (my favorite horse ever, after Man o’War), lol. Nothing about this race is similar to the ‘78 Gold Cup - somehow this racing scribe managed to downplay Slew’s performance (“he never gave up” - what a bland description of his race - thank you for your colorful description, lol).

Charlatan is brilliant, but to say that he has a long way to go before being compared to Slew is putting it mildly.

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...-saudi-arabia/

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by robfla

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...-saudi-arabia/

Oh my god, I should have known...Privman is too good for this, but it’s just about right for Finley.

[freddymo]

Seattle Slew? I think Seattle Fitz is a better comparison seriously Slew? Have a heart

[freddymo]

The fact that someone pays Bill Finley to write that drivel is amazing

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I’m not a fan of Charlatan, and I was impressed by his gameness, but not every tough beat is reminiscent of Seattle Slew (my favorite horse ever, after Man o’War), lol. Nothing about this race is similar to the ‘78 Gold Cup - somehow this racing scribe managed to downplay Slew’s performance (“he never gave up” - what a bland description of his race - thank you for your colorful description, lol).

I find it annoying that these hack turf writers simply dismiss Mishriff (IRE) as some nameless horse that got a "perfect trip". Wouldn't the sport and the public be better served by focusing on this relative newcomer to the American scene (you know, the winner), rather than re-hashing the same old dubious praise--even in defeat--on some horse that is always 50-50 to be making his final career start?

Mishriff (IRE)--unlike Charlatan--is actually a classic winner (French Derby) and has shown versatility on various types of ground. His pedigree is strong, hailing from one of the best present day sire lines in Europe outside of Galileo (Dubawi). The female family includes a French Oaks winner as the 3rd dam who dropped two major modern day stallions in Invincible Spirit and Kodiak.

Speaking of stallions, I wouldn't be shocked to learn that these hacks write these disingenuous pieces in order to lay the groundwork for the "chosen" horse's stud career. In that regard, you'd think they'd want to talk the horse up that dusted him so that Charlatan's defeat can be justified by more than simply "he had to face pace pressure".

Perhaps more importantly in the short-term, Mishriff (IRE) is actually being considered for the Dubai World Cup. Does anyone think that Charlatan (who is "playing it by ear") is going to be there?

[freddymo]

If they can get Charlatan back to the States and on a regimented Micro EPO program, could he make his final start in the Met Mile? You blow out a big 118 BSF and start working on his Stallion Adverts in July...Maybe something like this.Charlatan a better fraud for your money than Carpe Diem?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

If they can get Charlatan back to the States and on a regimented Micro EPO program, could he make his final start in the Met Mile? You blow out a big 118 BSF and start working on his Stallion Adverts in July...Maybe something like this.Charlatan a better fraud for your money than Carpe Diem?

If both Charlatan and Maxfield make it to the Met Mile, there may be a glimmer of hope for the sport.

I would even tolerate these turf writing hacks comparing such a match-up to the proposed Easy Goer-Sunday Silence race at Arlington in 1990 (so long as they both actually show up).

[moses]

lol...love reading your commentary.

[King Glorious]

Rollo, I have a question for you. I know how you feel about Charlatan. Assuming he can stay healthy all year (and I know that is not the strongest assumption), who are the horses that you see as being above him in this country running route races on dirt? The first horse that will come to many minds is Maxffield but he's just as iffy, if not moreso, from a physical perspective as Charlatan. Many times, your success is not defined strictly by how good you are but also by how good your competition is,

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Rollo, I have a question for you. I know how you feel about Charlatan. Assuming he can stay healthy all year (and I know that is not the strongest assumption), who are the horses that you see as being above him in this country running route races on dirt? The first horse that will come to many minds is Maxffield but he's just as iffy, if not moreso, from a physical perspective as Charlatan. Many times, your success is not defined strictly by how good you are but also by how good your competition is,

Isn’t the overall point that he won’t be healthy?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Rollo, I have a question for you. I know how you feel about Charlatan. Assuming he can stay healthy all year (and I know that is not the strongest assumption), who are the horses that you see as being above him in this country running route races on dirt? The first horse that will come to many minds is Maxffield but he's just as iffy, if not moreso, from a physical perspective as Charlatan. Many times, your success is not defined strictly by how good you are but also by how good your competition is,

Again, that's the irony of the results of the Saudi Cup. There is basically little competition for Charlatan and yet he still found a way to lose the race. I'm not sure why the people that previously anointed him as the best older horse in America despite not ever having won a two-turn race and seemed to be salivating that he'd get to run in a $20 million race around one-turn are suddenly changing gear and talking about how "heroic" and "game" the horse was Saturday. He should have won by 10 lengths against that field if we presume that Knicks Go was always going to fold in a duel (as many predicted).

The fact that Charlatan himself couldn't ultimately handle pace pressure or relax in the early stages of the race pretty much exposes him as far as routes go despite the paltry competition on the scene. Maybe those limitations have to do with Mike Smith's awful race riding, but until proven otherwise he is still simply a superior sprinter.

Do you think Charlatan is going to improve when he goes two turns?
Do you think Charlatan is going to improve when he goes 10 furlongs?

The only way he will win a race like the Gold Cup or the Pacific Classic is if we get the usual paceless, small fields we've seen in CA for decades now.

In a field of even modest quality with a fair pace scenario, I could fathom horses like Code of Honor or Express Train running this horse down, never mind Maxfield, at 10 furlongs. There's also Performer and Mystic Guide waiting in the wings that are better suited to routes. Silver State and The Sound have won 3 straight allowances a piece and have enough speed to make Charlatan work early.

But don't hold your breath for any of this to get settled on the racetrack. Unless Baffert goes for the Met Mile (which would suggest he has no plans to run the horse 10 furlongs) I would fully expect Charlatan to remain in the friendly confines of facing Tizamagician, Extra Hope, Kiss Today Goodbye, and Independence Hall, probably in the San Diego and Pacific Classic.

And if Charlatan does happen to make it to the BC Classic, it would be presumptuous to think Mishriff wouldn't point for the race himself, especially if he gives a good account of himself in the Dubai World Cup. The horse clearly handles the dirt (Baffert even conveniently red-boarded that Mishriff was always the horse to beat) and is in the barn of a trainer who formerly trained in CA and won the BC Classic with this horse's similarly Euro-based grandsire...

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I find it annoying that these hack turf writers simply dismiss Mishriff (IRE) as some nameless horse that got a "perfect trip". Wouldn't the sport and the public be better served by focusing on this relative newcomer to the American scene (you know, the winner), rather than re-hashing the same old dubious praise--even in defeat--on some horse that is always 50-50 to be making his final career start?

Mishriff (IRE)--unlike Charlatan--is actually a classic winner (French Derby) and has shown versatility on various types of ground. His pedigree is strong, hailing from one of the best present day sire lines in Europe outside of Galileo (Dubawi). The female family includes a French Oaks winner as the 3rd dam who dropped two major modern day stallions in Invincible Spirit and Kodiak.

Speaking of stallions, I wouldn't be shocked to learn that these hacks write these disingenuous pieces in order to lay the groundwork for the "chosen" horse's stud career. In that regard, you'd think they'd want to talk the horse up that dusted him so that Charlatan's defeat can be justified by more than simply "he had to face pace pressure".

Perhaps more importantly in the short-term, Mishriff (IRE) is actually being considered for the Dubai World Cup. Does anyone think that Charlatan (who is "playing it by ear") is going to be there?

Bill forgot that another horse won the race, lol. I agree with you, good points. Finley is the same guy that wrote a fake recap of the SA Derby (before the race) that had Authentic winning by 11; it was a love fest for the horse and BB - and he apparently removed it because he didn’t like the comments. He probably assumed Charlatan would win, and now he’s making excuses.