KEE meet, SUN Derby cancelled; KY Derby to September 5th..

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by moses

If it’s moved to September, I’m interested to see what they do with futures wagers. I’ll take a refund on my bets in Green Light Go and Chance It...but I don’t mind keeping that Oaks-Derby double I have for Wicked Whisper and Maxfield.

I really loathe a decision to postpone. By then, the colts will be closer to being older horses than 3 year olds - the race itself is more than a test of talent, it's a test of which horses can be precocious enough to be ready for that demanding distance so early in the year and yet sturdy enough to be able to run well at that distance. Now it's just going to be a post-Travers race - too similar to the Travers, in fact it will be exactly the same. Will trainers want to run in both races? Nope, so they’d be forced to choose...

There is no reason why the Derby shouldn't be run in front of a crowdless grandstand. I would also add that the Derby would get extra coverage as pretty much the only sporting event at the time - in September, with pennant race baseball going on as well as the start of the NFL season...and maybe the Masters...it’s going to get lost.

Additionally, if the Derby is postponed, and there's no Preakness, where do these horses run? There aren't any big races within that span because of the TC.... I like Steve Haskins’ idea (from his Derby Dozen):

Derby decision tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. I assume they will postpone, so I will have to discuss with editors about ending Derby Dozen. Most of the preps look like they will run, but no sense having a Derby Dozen without the Derby. Will some track put up the money and have a 1 1/4-mile race on the first Saturday in May with 14 starters? All these horses will be all revved up with no place to go. Might be interesting to run a race at Santa Anita on Derby day. It would start at the head of the stretch just like the Derby. They could lower the purse of the SA Derby and put it towards their big race. Handle would go thru the roof with no other betting outlets around the world, TV rights and TVG and XBTV based there, and wouldnt Stronach Group love to stick it to Churchill Downs and steal their thunder?

[Mike A]

I understand official announcement is tomorrow, but a quick search for a stay in Louisville at Marriott properties for the first Saturday in September are sold out

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I really loathe a decision to postpone. By then, the colts will be closer to being older horses than 3 year olds - the race itself is more than a test of talent, it's a test of which horses can be precocious enough to be ready for that demanding distance so early in the year and yet sturdy enough to be able to run well at that distance.

With a quick scan of the past 30-odd Derby winners the phrase "sturdy enough" does not come to mind.

At this point it is strictly a test for precocity. Stamina or sturdiness hardly factor into it at all despite the 10 furlong distance.

There is no reason why the Derby shouldn't be run in front of a crowdless grandstand. I would also add that the Derby would get extra coverage as pretty much the only sporting event at the time - in September, with pennant race baseball going on as well as the start of the NFL season...and maybe the Masters...it’s going to get lost.

Run it after the BC Classic on Thanksgiving weekend the same day as the Kentucky Jockey Club to double up on promotion for the 2021 Derby. Would be a better barometer of champion 3yo that way. Might draw a South American or two...

Keeneland can run the Blue Grass as a prep race on the BC undercard.

Additionally, if the Derby is postponed, and there's no Preakness, where do these horses run? There aren't any big races within that span because of the TC.... I like Steve Haskins’ idea (from his Derby Dozen):

New York Triple Crown. Withers, Peter Pan, Belmont Stakes. Keep it rolling with the Dwyer. Add a points system with some bonus money.

[Betsy]

Here’s something:

According to multiple sources, all close to the situation, “The Pressbox” has learned that the 146th Kentucky Derby — which has been scheduled for May 2, 2020 — will be moved to Saturday, Sept. 5 due to complications associated with the COVID-19 pandemic.

“The Pressbox” has also learned that Churchill Downs will hold a teleconference on Tuesday, March 17 at 9 a.m. ET to announce the news and begin official preparations for the sport’s longest-running and most historic Grade 1 Stakes event.

https://twitter.com/thepressboxlts/stat ... 4766267392

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

With a quick scan of the past 30-odd Derby winners the phrase "sturdy enough" does not come to mind.

At this point it is strictly a test for precocity. Stamina or sturdiness hardly factor into it at all despite the 10 furlong distance.


Run it after the BC Classic on Thanksgiving weekend the same day as the Kentucky Jockey Club to double up on promotion for the 2021 Derby. Would be a better barometer of champion 3yo that way. Might draw a South American or two...

Keeneland can run the Blue Grass as a prep race on the BC undercard.


New York Triple Crown. Withers, Peter Pan, Belmont Stakes. Keep it rolling with the Dwyer. Add a points system with some bonus money.

Maybe sturdy isn’t the right word....my point was that the race is a test of more than just talent. Some horses aren’t ready for the distance in May, some never will be. I don’t think it’s strictly a test of precocity or else we’d have a multitude of winners who broke their maidens at 5 furlongs.

That’s not a bad idea at all - I much prefer it to September. Still, these colts will be even more like 4 year olds then..,it almost shouldn’t be called a Derby.

I like the N.Y Triple Crown idea...

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Betsy

Here’s something:

According to multiple sources, all close to the situation, “The Pressbox” has learned that the 146th Kentucky Derby — which has been scheduled for May 2, 2020 — will be moved to Saturday, Sept. 5 due to complications associated with the COVID-19 pandemic.

If this takes place after the summer season (if there is one) and after the Haskell/Travers, the race will mean absolutely NOTHING. Repeat, NOTHING.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

If this takes place after the summer season (if there is one) and after the Haskell/Travers, the race will mean absolutely NOTHING. Repeat, NOTHING.

It means little to me now. I suppose some will aim for the Travers, some for this fake Derby...the race is the most important thing, not the hooplah and celebs that don’t know one end of the horse from another. Yes, that’s all part of it and it’s wonderful, but strip it all down and the race is still the most exciting two minutes in sports.

Yes, I’m bitter. With no sports to focus on, no baseball, I’ve had some time to stew about this.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Betsy

It means little to me now. I suppose some will aim for the Travers, some for this fake Derby...the race is the most important thing, not the hooplah and celebs that don’t know one end of the horse from another. Yes, that’s all part of it and it’s wonderful, but strip it all down and the race is still the most exciting two minutes in sports.

Yes, I’m bitter. With no sports to focus on, no baseball, I’ve had some time to stew about this.

There’s a pandemic and you’re mad the Derby is postponed?

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

There’s a pandemic and you’re mad the Derby is postponed?

They should just cancel for this year ..... period!

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

There’s a pandemic and you’re mad the Derby is postponed?

Oh please, I don’t need to be lectured. I’ve had to cancel my trip to the UK - I suppose I’m not allowed to be disappointed in that also? We have to put all our feelings on hold about everything? Don’t lecture me - I live at home with my 84 year old father, and while he’s in great shape, of course I’m worried about possibly infecting him - or my mother. You don’t know me, you don’t know what I’m feeling, so get off my back. Oh, and if you’re so concerned about the pandemic, why are you posting about racing instead of focusing entirely on this virus? You have no right to judge me.

[moses]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

There’s a pandemic and you’re mad the Derby is postponed?

In fairness to Betsy, I think a lot of people (including myself) were holding onto the Derby as the last sporting event that hadn’t been cancelled and that could maybe restore some normalcy to our lives at a time where the world just seems freaking crazy.

It’s disappointing...but like I said, I’ll enjoy the novelty of the September Derby this year. And yeah, public health is obviously more important than any sporting event. As a sidenote: One thing I’m worried about with this virus is the psychological impact isolation and the disruption of our normal lives will have on people. The physical impact from contracting the virus is one thing but social distancing and all the other adjustments are really going to be difficult for some people.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

There’s a pandemic and you’re mad the Derby is postponed?

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

New York Triple Crown. Withers, Peter Pan, Belmont Stakes. Keep it rolling with the Dwyer. Add a points system with some bonus money.

Let the Saratoga Travers be a lead in to the late September or October Belmont .... at Belmont.

[moses]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I really loathe a decision to postpone. By then, the colts will be closer to being older horses than 3 year olds - the race itself is more than a test of talent, it's a test of which horses can be precocious enough to be ready for that demanding distance so early in the year and yet sturdy enough to be able to run well at that distance. Now it's just going to be a post-Travers race - too similar to the Travers, in fact it will be exactly the same. Will trainers want to run in both races? Nope, so they’d be forced to choose...

There is no reason why the Derby shouldn't be run in front of a crowdless grandstand. I would also add that the Derby would get extra coverage as pretty much the only sporting event at the time - in September, with pennant race baseball going on as well as the start of the NFL season...and maybe the Masters...it’s going to get lost.

Additionally, if the Derby is postponed, and there's no Preakness, where do these horses run? There aren't any big races within that span because of the TC.... I like Steve Haskins’ idea (from his Derby Dozen):

I love the Derby...this sucks (for many reasons), but I’ll try to enjoy the novelty of the September Derby for this year.

The big flaw in Haskin’s idea is that most states may shut down horse racing in the next few weeks (at least I think so) and it would probably be crazy for a track to do that with the possibility of no fan attendance. I also wouldn’t want it at Santa Anita.

Maybe Laurel should commission a big race in late September between the Derby and Breeders Cup. They wanted the Preakness...maybe they could host the equivalent this year.

It’s going to be weird no matter what.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by moses

I love the Derby...this sucks (for many reasons), but I’ll try to enjoy the novelty of the September Derby for this year.

The big flaw in Haskin’s idea is that most states may shut down horse racing in the next few weeks (at least I think so) and it would probably be crazy for a track to do that with the possibility of no fan attendance. I also wouldn’t want it at Santa Anita.

Maybe Laurel should commission a big race in late September between the Derby and Breeders Cup. They wanted the Preakness...maybe they could host the equivalent this year.

It’s going to be weird no matter what.

The thing is, aside from the logistical complications, it’s essentially going up against the Travers. It’s not good for the sport if the top colts all abandon that race so that it’s a shell of itself. I’m not really worried about that as I think more than a few will run there. Then there’s the fact that there is a huge hole in the calendar. Once the preps are over, where are these fit and ready horses supposed to run with no Derby and no Preakness? I admit that I’d always hate the postponement because I think they should have run without crowds - as detailed above - but I would be less upset if doing so didn’t upset the apple cart.


It’s going to go down in the annals of racing history, that’s for sure, lol

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Betsy

The thing is, aside from the logistical complications, it’s essentially going up against the Travers. It’s not good for the sport if the top colts all abandon that race so that it’s a shell of itself. I’m not really worried about that as I think more than a few will run there. Then there’s the fact that there is a huge hole in the calendar. Once the preps are over, where are these fit and ready horses supposed to run with no Derby and no Preakness? I admit that I’d always hate the postponement because I think they should have run without crowds - as detailed above - but I would be less upset if doing so didn’t upset the apple cart.


It’s going to go down in the annals of racing history, that’s for sure, lol

I highly doubt the Travers will be run a week before the Derby. People will make adjustments to their stakes schedule I’m sure.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I highly doubt the Travers will be run a week before the Derby. People will make adjustments to their stakes schedule I’m sure.

That’s true...I’m not sure trainers will want to run two 1 1/4 back to back, but they can always prep for the BC with a 1 1/8 race like the Woodward. Tracks will need to work together - maybe reschedule other races for the May, June period.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I think there’s been some kind of misunderstanding - I wanted the race to be run without people, as NY and CA are doing. In no way was I suggesting the race should be run as usual.

This is the key point. New York and California are trying to lead the way based on their generation of on-line handle to keep all of the social distancing aspects in place while giving those involved with the industry a chance to earn a living.

Originally Posted by Betsy

That’s true...I’m not sure trainers will want to run two 1 1/4 back to back, but they can always prep for the BC with a 1 1/8 race like the Woodward. Tracks will need to work together - maybe reschedule other races for the May, June period.

If those at Churchill spoke with the California and New York racing entities to discuss the impact on their scheduling to hold a Labor Day Derby, I am completely on board. However, if Churchill did this unilaterally without business consideration for the other racing jursidictions, exactly why do California and New York need to fall in line behind a year-round second tier circuit? To support the game?

[ScottJ]

NYRA press release : https://www.nyra.com/belmont/news/ny...belmont-stakes

Notice the clear delineation between Churchill's decision and anything to do with NYRA. In other words, this was NOT worked through the horse racing system and appears to be exclusively a Churchill Derby Day cash grab in coordination with NBC coverage. The Kentucky Derby is officially a scratch from my race card interest in 2020.

[moses]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I think there’s been some kind of misunderstanding - I wanted the race to be run without people, as NY and CA are doing. In no way was I suggesting the race should be run as usual.

Originally Posted by ScottJ

This is the key point. New York and California are trying to lead the way based on their generation of on-line handle to keep all of the social distancing aspects in place while giving those involved with the industry a chance to earn a living.

If those at Churchill spoke with the California and New York racing entities to discuss the impact on their scheduling to hold a Labor Day Derby, I am completely on board. However, if Churchill did this unilaterally without business consideration for the other racing jursidictions, exactly why do California and New York need to fall in line behind a year-round second tier circuit? To support the game?

The thing for me is - I’m pretty sure that states and/or the federal government are going to mandate that horse racing stop at some point. So I don’t think planning to race without fans is a viable option for Churchill. I guess we’ll see. I don’t think Santa Anita or NYRA are going to be running in two weeks.