Weekend Stakes Beyers

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Come on Steve. He’s the poster child for the rich get richer in this sport. I don’t fault owners for sending horses to him. The results speak for themselves. But there are a lot of really good trainers that don’t get the stock he gets EVERY single year and has gotten EVERY single year for decades.

As Baffert said to me in an interview recently when asked about the flow of premium talent, "I worked my whole career to get to this spot".

It is not true that Baffert received elite stock 'for decades'. He never had the volume that Pletcher or even Mott was receiving and the horses he was getting were relatively modest priced ($100,000-$250,000) and quality homebreds. It's only in the last 7-10 years that he started to receive high ticket sales prospects.

Here are the Top 20 horses of Baffert's career based on earnings:

Arrogate (2014 KEE YRLG) $560,000 (Juddmonte)
American Pharoah (2014 2YO) Homebred (Zayat)
Captain Steve (1998 FT JUL YRLG) $150,000 (Pegram)
Game On Dude (KEE 2008 YRLG) $210,000-RNA (Diamond Pride/Lanni+)
West Coast (2015 SEP YRLG) $425,000 (West)
Hoppertunity (2012 SEP YRLG) $300,000 (Pegram+)
Bayern (2013 TIM 2YO) $300,000 (Shah)
Silver Charm (OBS SPR 2YO) $100,000 (Lewis)
Point Given (2000 2YO) Homebred (Thoroughbred Corp.)
Justify (2016 KEE YRLG) $500,000 (China Horse Club+)
Secret Circle (2011 OBS MAR) $165,000 (Pegram+)
McKinzie (2016 KEE SEP YRLG) $170,000 (Pegram+)
Lookin At Lucky (2009 KEE APR 2YO) $475,000 (Pegram+)
Real Quiet (1996 KEE YRLG) $17,000 (Pegram)
Congaree (2000 YRLG) Homebred (Stonerside)
War Emblem (2000 KEE YRLG) Private Purchase (Thoroughbred Corp.)
Silverbulletday (1997 FT JUL YRLG) $155,000 (Pegram)
Indian Blessing (2007 2YO) Homebred (Earnhardt)
Collected (2015 OBS MAR 2YO) $170,000 (Speedway)
General Challenge (1998 2YO) Homebred (Mabee)

[blackthroatedwind]

I think your argument about Bob is fair in many ways, Steve, but just listing the successful horse's prices ( and you can't just say American Pharoah was a homebred, and perhaps there are others in this category, without saying their potential value at public auction....as he RNA'd for around $300K ) without telling us all the prices of the horses he got, successful and unsuccessful. It's not just about the horses a trainer does well with, right?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think your argument about Bob is fair in many ways, Steve, but just listing the successful horse's prices ( and you can't just say American Pharoah was a homebred, and perhaps there are others in this category, without saying their potential value at public auction....as he RNA'd for around $300K ) without telling us all the prices of the horses he got, successful and unsuccessful. It's not just about the horses a trainer does well with, right?

The top earners were the most succinct and available to research. And given the spread of years involved, feels like a good snapshot. If you look at Baffert's stakes winners from the period, I think they'll tell the same story.

Re: Pharoah RNA price, it can be balanced by Pioneerof the Nile's stud fee ($17,500) at the time. Zayat actually retained a good portion of PoTN so the cover came out of his supply of seasons.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You should also give the purchase price, I feel like it was $1 million, for War Emblem....right?

Couldn't remember. Sounds right. Maybe more even.

[Dahoss]

It’s 2020 right? If he’s been getting really good stock since the late 90’s that is decades.

When you train for the owners he does and has you get elite stock, whether it is homebreds or moderately/ high priced auction horses. Again, his results speak for themselves. I understand why he gets what he gets.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The top earners were the most succinct and available to research. And given the spread of years involved, feels like a good snapshot. If you look at Baffert's stakes winners from the period, I think they'll tell the same story.

Re: Pharoah RNA price, it can be balanced by Pioneerof the Nile's stud fee ($17,500) at the time. Zayat actually retained a good portion of PoTN so the cover came out of his supply of seasons.




Couldn't remember. Sounds right. Maybe more even.

I don't agree. I think a fair snapshot is the total price/value of a trainer's crop, and then see how they fared. Plus, since we are discussing the opportunity that Bob gets annually, isn't it fair to discuss everything he received, and not just the horses he was successful with?

I also understand that virtually no trainer will appear "successful" under this microscope, and you know I have great respect for Bob, but I still think it's worth looking at the whole picture as it applies to the conversation.

[freddymo]

Steve, Bob also told you that West sent him 12 or 14 of his best 2 years olds and let him test drive them and keep the ones he wanted...Baffert told you he kept 2 or 3. Think about how many guys would send back 10 horses he didn't even want to try with from an owner as wealthy as West.

Nobody is not saying he did not prove he was worthy of such riches or didn't earn the luxury he has but this guy also tells people its about the trophies, not the money and when he bombs out on a 1 mil two-year-old in training prospect it doesn't phase him. he reloads every year with the very best prospects and or the hardship or an Earnhardt homebred out of a daughter of Indian Blessing.

He is great radio and the best dirt trainer ever that said he is playing craps with loaded dice.