The Day Horse Racing Died

[Dahoss]

I’ve watched the race probably 30 times and I’m pretty confident in race watching abilities, so with all due respect I disagree on your take on how easy it’d be to re rally after having your momentum taken away at the most crucial part of the race.

Obviously we don’t agree which is cool. It’d be boring if everyone agreed, but I appreciate you explaining your side.

I maintain that a foul on a Monday is a foul in the Derby. Even if War of Will and Long Range Toddy were not going to win, they had legitimate shots at the exacta, tri or super and that was taken away when they were fouled by the winner. That has always been justification for a DQ. It maintains the integrity of the betting.

I hate to play the what if game but if War of Will goes down do people still not agree a DQ was warranted?

I understand the gripes of consistency and I’m sure I’ll be complaining about a DQ soon enough.

[scanman]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’ve watched the race probably 30 times and I’m pretty confident in race watching abilities, so with all due respect I disagree on your take on how easy it’d be to re rally after having your momentum taken away at the most crucial part of the race.

Obviously we don’t agree which is cool. It’d be boring if everyone agreed, but I appreciate you explaining your side.

I maintain that a foul on a Monday is a foul in the Derby. Even if War of Will and Long Range Toddy were not going to win, they had legitimate shots at the exacta, tri or super and that was taken away when they were fouled by the winner. That has always been justification for a DQ. It maintains the integrity of the betting.

I hate to play the what if game but if War of Will goes down do people still not agree a DQ was warranted?

I understand the gripes of consistency and I’m sure I’ll be complaining about a DQ soon enough.

So true. I enjoyed the conversation and certainly respect you and others who see the race differently. I've been a soccer referee for about 20 years (over 3000 matches) and you can imagine the senarios that we discuss. 100 referees watching the same incident and 50 going one way and 50 going the other. That's why I always respect someone else's view. Sometimes they win me over, sometimes they don't; and vice-versa.

I'm sure you are just as passionate about racing as I am. Wishful thinking to hope we could have 100% clean races, but like you said, that would make racing a bit boring. Cheers.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’ve watched the race probably 30 times and I’m pretty confident in race watching abilities, so with all due respect I disagree on your take on how easy it’d be to re rally after having your momentum taken away at the most crucial part of the race.

Obviously we don’t agree which is cool. It’d be boring if everyone agreed, but I appreciate you explaining your side.

I maintain that a foul on a Monday is a foul in the Derby. Even if War of Will and Long Range Toddy were not going to win, they had legitimate shots at the exacta, tri or super and that was taken away when they were fouled by the winner. That has always been justification for a DQ. It maintains the integrity of the betting.

I hate to play the what if game but if War of Will goes down do people still not agree a DQ was warranted?

I understand the gripes of consistency and I’m sure I’ll be complaining about a DQ soon enough.

What if War of Will didn't try to bull his way through in the first place? Why do the people who are adamant about the DQ being the correct call refuse to even acknowledge that War of Will was unsettled and rank from the time they went into the clubhouse turn until he bulled his way out from behind Maximum Security and into the 18, 21 and 20 midway on the turn to begin with? Country House's "momentum" was actually impacted more by those bumps than anything Maximum Security did. Why is there no outrage that Tyler G's inability to settle War of Will for half a mile "could have" resulted in "carnage" in the same way they are outraged about Maximum Security's actions?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

What if War of Will didn't try to bull his way through in the first place? Why do the people who are adamant about the DQ being the correct call refuse to even acknowledge that War of Will was unsettled and rank from the time they went into the clubhouse turn until he bulled his way out from behind Maximum Security and into the 18, 21 and 20 midway on the turn to begin with? Country House's "momentum" was actually impacted more by those bumps than anything Maximum Security did. Why is there no outrage that Tyler G's inability to settle War of Will for half a mile "could have" resulted in "carnage" in the same way they are outraged about Maximum Security's actions?

Because what you are describing didn’t happen. War of Will and Tyler G did nothing wrong. Country House wasn’t impacted at all.

Confirmation bias based on that ridiculous video you were talking about yesterday.

How Tyler G is now the villain in al of this is sad. He literally did nothing wrong and rode a tremendous race.

[Alabama Stakes]

He did a Paco Lopez and tried to make a hole where there wasn’t a hole and basically caused the whole thing. That’s why he didn’t claim foul. His mount’s head is on The winners flank while the winner was still in the 2 path. It’s clear as day.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

He did a Paco Lopez and tried to make a hole where there wasn’t a hole and basically caused the whole thing. That’s why he didn’t claim foul. His mount’s head is on The winners flank while the winner was still in the 2 path. It’s clear as day.

You’re never right about anything so not sure why this would be any different.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

You’re never right about anything so not sure why this would be any different.

Songbird won.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Songbird won.

Yawn. Nice “hit” in the Derby.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Because what you are describing didn’t happen. War of Will and Tyler G did nothing wrong. Country House wasn’t impacted at all.

Confirmation bias based on that ridiculous video you were talking about yesterday.

How Tyler G is now the villain in all of this is sad. He literally did nothing wrong and rode a tremendous race.

This is just good old NBC's coverage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci_ychn7ga0

At 1:09 seconds on the video, WOW is clearly unsettled in behind MS. Are you telling me you can't see him throwing his head? Maybe it's the kickback of mud, but he clearly does not want to be in that spot.

From about the 1:16 mark to right about 1:50, Tyler G is literally standing in the irons, restraining WOW, who is clearly eager to get out of that spot. Please tell me that I am making that up and you do not see that either?

At 1:59 you can see WOW's head come out from behind MS as Tyler goes for the seam and he clearly bumps into LRT, who in turn bumps BE and finally CH. Again, you don't see any of that happening in this video? This is well before MS ever crosses out over that tractor track/puddle as they straighten away. And good for Tyler for trying to find that seam. That's horse racing. But you can't vilify Saez for riding dangerously and almost causing an incident that horse racing could never come back from, then say only that Tyler G rode a tremendous race.

My point is simply the folks that support the DQ simply want to focus on what they want to shine a light to, and nothing else. And I am not making Tyler G a villain at all. I am simply sticking to the opinion that this race is like no other run in this country. 20 horses (in this case 19), whatever conditions, and horses running further than they have ever run before, and for most will ever run again. Bumping and grinding for the most part for 10f. It's the nature of the beast known as the Kentucky Derby. I also don't think that anyone on the side of no DQ thinks Maximum Security didn't do anything. He clearly did. But all of the calls stewards make are "judgement" calls. My opinion is they didn't consider all of the factors contributing to Maximum Security's actions when making their judgement call. Which just happened to occur while our sport's biggest race was receiving the best ratings since 1990. And most, who barely have a clue in the first place, where left even more confused than when they turned their TV on.

[Dahoss]

I’ve watched the races a few dozen times. I appreciate you explaining it as you see it but I don’t think you’re correct in your opinion of it.

I haven’t seen anyone vilify Saez. He did his best to correct what MS did. But it was very telling how he reacted when the objection came up and after he spoke to the stewards. He knew what had happened.

You can’t have rules for one race and different than others. Maybe this will lead to them capping the entries at 14. Who knows. But it doesn’t become Thunderdome because it’s the Derby.