5/4 (CD): 145th Kentucky Derby Day

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Save the drama. There was NEVER the remote inkling of a *terrible tragedy*

Jesus Fu<king Christ

War of Will could've gone down in front of most of the Derby field. Someone could've died but sure, save the drama.

Here's one screen capture of what Maximum Security's coming out did to War of Will as he was moving forward. Credit: NBC's coverage, captured by @RussellKline1 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5xSBd8UcAAJQKH.jpg

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

War of Will could've gone down in front of most of the Derby field. Someone could've died but sure, save the drama.

Here's one screen capture of what Maximum Security's coming out did to War of Will as he was moving forward. Credit: NBC's coverage, captured by @RussellKline1 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5xSBd8UcAAJQKH.jpg

To me, it looks like WoW is riding up the MS arse. That is what I felt when I saw it live and on replay. He moved too soon. WoW caused the problem.

[jms62]

Watching that replay we were 1/2 second from a disaster that would be far far worse for the sport than the DQ. How many horses would have gone down ?

[herkhorse]

It's horse racing, we are a 1/2 second from disaster in every race. Thousands of people got to experience the thrill of victory, followed by the gut punch of a disqualification. The worst feeling in all of sports betting. My guess is most won't become lifelong fans.
Was it a BS call? maybe, maybe not. The track condition was surely a factor, if WOW goes inside of Max instead of trying to squeeze outside, maybe nothing happens. I'm just not a fan of humans deciding the outcome.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

It's horse racing, we are a 1/2 second from disaster in every race. Thousands of people got to experience the thrill of victory, followed by the gut punch of a disqualification. The worst feeling in all of sports betting. My guess is most won't become lifelong fans.
Was it a BS call? maybe, maybe not. The track condition was surely a factor, if WOW goes inside of Max instead of trying to squeeze outside, maybe nothing happens. I'm just not a fan of humans deciding the outcome.

You do realize that I am not commenting on the DQ but that the fact that a lot of horses would have gone down there and given what happened at Santa Anita over the winter it could have been a death blow.

As far as the DQ goes I understand the call but 90% of the time it wouldn’t be called at that point of the race. It would be great if it were called 90% of the time. Just an odd time to do it. I had the 2 underneath on my tickets but if I had him on top I would consider what happened an absolute gift and wouldn’t complain about a bad beat for at least 24 hours

[moses]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

It's horse racing, we are a 1/2 second from disaster in every race. Thousands of people got to experience the thrill of victory, followed by the gut punch of a disqualification. The worst feeling in all of sports betting. My guess is most won't become lifelong fans.
Was it a BS call? maybe, maybe not. The track condition was surely a factor, if WOW goes inside of Max instead of trying to squeeze outside, maybe nothing happens. I'm just not a fan of humans deciding the outcome.

In fairness, and I’m not saying you’re suggesting this, but if they start ruling based on how many new fans they can create by the decision, then the entire integrity of the sport is in much bigger trouble than it currently is.

I’d also prefer that stewards not determine the outcome but that becomes impossible when something happens on the track warranting an objection or inquiry. It sucks that the finish happened like this, but I can’t really find any fault in what the stewards did.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by richard burch

To me, it looks like WoW is riding up the MS arse. That is what I felt when I saw it live and on replay. He moved too soon. WoW caused the problem.

After watching the replay several times, it did look like WoW was up his ass and way too close, even before the incident. Like the jackass on the highway that's a foot off someone's bumper when traffic is such that there's nowhere to go. With that said, I do think that the stewards technically made the correct call. I just wish Irad would have had a little better trip. Wasn't his day....

[moses]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

After watching the replay several times, it did look like WoW was up his ass and way too close, even before the incident. Like the jackass on the highway that's a foot off someone's bumper when traffic is such that there's nowhere to go. With that said, I do think that the stewards technically made the correct call. I just wish Irad would have had a little better trip. Wasn't his day....

I’ll have to watch it again. I thought WOW had space created by the #21 (I think) falling back and then his lane got shut off by MS drifting out quite a bit. Not really seeing it how you guys see it, but I’ll watch again to see.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by moses

I’ll have to watch it again. I thought WOW had space created by the #21 (I think) falling back and then his lane got shut off by MS drifting out quite a bit. Not really seeing it how you guys see it, but I’ll watch again to see.

Watch WoW's entire trip in relation to MS. Most are watching only the incident. I guess it's possible I was hallucinating last night after a long day. I'm sure I'll watch it again today many times as well.

[moses]

I recall seeing WOW close behind and being restrained because he was boxed in. But I thought a hole eventually opened up for him. I’ll watch again tonight.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

After watching the replay several times, it did look like WoW was up his ass and way too close, even before the incident. Like the jackass on the highway that's a foot off someone's bumper when traffic is such that there's nowhere to go. With that said, I do think that the stewards technically made the correct call. I just wish Irad would have had a little better trip. Wasn't his day....

thank you. Their legs were tangled together. I would say that WOW actually forced MS to move further out because he was "pushing" him.
Also curious as to why WOW didn't file an objection. he was the one making contact from the back. I think He knew He ****ed up and whistled pass the graveyard.

look at it....thats not an illusion...and it went on for a few strides....

the 1 is the cause and although it wouldn't help the bettors, they should REVERSE the decision before the Preakness......just my OP..

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by richard burch

thank you. Their legs were tangled together. I would say that WOW actually forced MS to move further out because he was "pushing" him.
Also curious as to why WOW didn't file an objection. he was the one making contact from the back. I think He knew He ****ed up and whistled pass the graveyard.

look at it....thats not an illusion...and it went on for a few strides....

the 1 is the cause and although it wouldn't help the bettors, they should REVERSE the decision before the Preakness......just my OP..

I’m trying to figure out how someone could watch the numerous head on videos of what happened and come to this conclusion. Like how is it even possible.

I get there can be a difference of opinion on the DQ...but to watch the videos and think War of Will was the one interfering with Maximum Security is mind boggling to me.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

War of Will could've gone down in front of most of the Derby field. Someone could've died but sure, save the drama.

Here's one screen capture of what Maximum Security's coming out did to War of Will as he was moving forward. Credit: NBC's coverage, captured by @RussellKline1 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5xSBd8UcAAJQKH.jpg

A screenshot, out of context with no benefit of a head on proves nothing. Horses race in tight daily. If the horse (MS) shied toward the crowd that purportedly spooked him ( makes no sense) , and a speed horse (WoW) is fading outside, what exactly is the jock supposed to do?

These are the facts:
1. There was NO Stewards Inquiry
2. Neither of the 2 horses that claimed foul were ever fouled

It’s the most ridiculous takedown I’ve ever seen. If you want to give him days for the ride that’s one thing. Placing clearly the best, and unquestionably the winning horse 17th serves no one, and is another black eye for the sport.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

A screenshot, out of context with no benefit of a head on proves nothing. Horses race in tight daily. If the horse (MS) shied toward the crowd that purportedly spooked him ( makes no sense) , and a speed horse (WoW) is fading outside, what exactly is the jock supposed to do?

These are the facts:
1. There was NO Stewards Inquiry
2. Neither of the 2 horses that claimed foul were ever fouled

It’s the most ridiculous takedown I’ve ever seen. If you want to give him days for the ride that’s one thing. Placing clearly the best, and unquestionably the winning horse 17th serves no one, and is another black eye for the sport.

You know I respect your opinion as well, but I think you’re being overly dramatic. The most ridiculous takedown you’ve ever seen? Come on man.

MS came out at least 2 paths, maybe 3-4. War of Will was bothered and Long Range Toddy was totally eliminated. It caused a chain reaction.

It doesn’t matter where it was on the turn and while I don’t think Saez purposely did it....he did it. There was a foul and horses were cost placings. How is that not a DQ? Maximum Security being the best horse (and miraculously rebreaking ) should have nothing to do with whether or not his foul cost other horses a placing.

[casp0555]

My two cents on this will not matter or change one thing so Im out of the debate. This Derby and the call will continue to be debated forever or so it will seem....the fact is, and we as participants and lovers of this sport, should be divinely grateful that there was not a pileup of human and horse flesh coming out of that turn. An event like that would have not only been catastrophic for the athletes but for the sport itself.

Thank whoever you want but be grateful for the safe outcome of 143. Money can be replaced, egos restored, and new athletes will come along that will wow and entertain us. Nothing can bring back a fatality or permanent injury, horse or human.

Sorry to interrupt....

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

A screenshot, out of context with no benefit of a head on proves nothing. Horses race in tight daily. If the horse (MS) shied toward the crowd that purportedly spooked him ( makes no sense) , and a speed horse (WoW) is fading outside, what exactly is the jock supposed to do?

These are the facts:
1. There was NO Stewards Inquiry
2. Neither of the 2 horses that claimed foul were ever fouled

It’s the most ridiculous takedown I’ve ever seen. If you want to give him days for the ride that’s one thing. Placing clearly the best, and unquestionably the winning horse 17th serves no one, and is another black eye for the sport.

The always great Scott Carson posted the most definitive video. If this isn't a foul... I don't know what is.

https://twitter.com/CarsoniPH/status...28240144457730

Originally Posted by casp0555

My two cents on this will not matter or change one thing so Im out of the debate. This Derby and the call will continue to be debated forever or so it will seem....the fact is, and we as participants and lovers of this sport, should be divinely grateful that there was not a pileup of human and horse flesh coming out of that turn. An event like that would have not only been catastrophic for the athletes but for the sport itself.

Thank whoever you want but be grateful for the safe outcome of 143. Money can be replaced, egos restored, and new athletes will come along that will wow and entertain us. Nothing can bring back a fatality or permanent injury, horse or human.

Sorry to interrupt....

Well said.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by philcski

The always great Scott Carson posted the most definitive video. If this isn't a foul... I don't know what is.

https://twitter.com/CarsoniPH/status...28240144457730



Well said.

Neither War of Will nor Long Range Toddy was winning this race, with or without interference.

The most impeded horse, War of Will never filed an objection. The Same Stewards being lauded on this board for their takedown are the same Stewards that completely missed it real time and never even filed an inquiry to look at it. The 2 horses that filed the objection were never fouled.

I get it. It certainly appears that Saez was momentarily not in control of his mount. You wanna give him days for this? I'm in complete agreement. But to put up an also-ran as a Kentucky Derby Champion - purely punitively- instead of keeping clearly best horse and eventual winner up is mind-numbing inexplicable

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Neither War of Will nor Long Range Toddy was winning this race, with or without interference.

The most impeded horse, War of Will never filed an objection. The Same Stewards being lauded on this board for their takedown are the same Stewards that completely missed it real time and never even filed an inquiry to look at it. The 2 horses that filed the objection were never fouled.

I get it. It certainly appears that Saez was momentarily not in control of his mount. You wanna give him days for this? I'm in complete agreement. But to put up an also-ran as a Kentucky Derby Champion - purely punitively- instead of keeping clearly best horse and eventual winner up is mind-numbing inexplicable

You don’t think it’s possible either one would have been 4th without the interference?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by philcski

The always great Scott Carson posted the most definitive video. If this isn't a foul... I don't know what is.

https://twitter.com/CarsoniPH/status...28240144457730



Well said.

Scott's video clearly put me in the camp of it was a valid DQ Call and a Gutsy call by the Stewards.

[moses]

Originally Posted by philcski

The always great Scott Carson posted the most definitive video. If this isn't a foul... I don't know what is.

https://twitter.com/CarsoniPH/status...28240144457730



Well said.

That video shows it pretty clearly. It’s still unfortunate it happened...but oh well.

Bill Mott owes Jason Servis, though. Not only did the foul result in Country House getting placed first but that video shows the foul pushed a whole bunch of horses wide and created a clear lane for Tacitus who was just picking up a full head of steam.