Can't make wine from sour grapes

[Merlinsky]

http://www.drf.com/news/horsemen-que...restoring-hope

Since when aren't Baffert horses forwardly placed when possible? The idea that RH would be kept farther back, given typically winning/placing Belmont performances of late, makes no sense. The idea that forward placement of RH is indicative of impropriety doesn't really work for at least those two reasons. Besides which, what a frickin' hypocrite if he wanted Noble Indy to set things up for Vino Rosso. Repole's mad he didn't get to 'Smarty' Justify. I see no situation where Noble Indy pulls out a win (without getting loose on the lead which was not gonna happen). He wanted to involve the NY Gaming Commission? Is he kidding? Would he mind it if we did that for him if he'd used Noble Indy as a rabbit for Vino? It's the same thing. I don't think Geroux was was doing anything that didn't make sense for RH's best run.

Johnny ought to know better. Jay Privman's take makes total sense. It passes the smell test for sure. Geroux did nothing wrong and I've heard the RH rankness and solution brought up by multiple people. If Noble Indy did hit the gate and, as Javier said, wasn't fast enough to get up there, that explains why he allowed that loss of position. Sorry, Mike, you didn't get to set up the race for your other horse and, incidentally, he wouldn't have won anyway as evidenced by Gronkowski's run. I think it's pretty clear if you'd cleared out Justify, Gronk was comin'. Super petty of Repole to go for Javier like that. I guess watch'em kiss and make up at some point. Todd can't have been happy, but he wouldn't be that vindictive with JC. If you don't have a plan B, well who's fault is that? He wasn't fast enough. Too bad. Not another jockey or trainer's responsibility to give your horse a break.

[LARHAGE]

Mike Repole’s an *******, so he wanted Castellano to Quarter Horse Noble Indy 10 wide on a kamikaze mission to take out Justify? His horses weren’t fast enough and the jockey he should be mad at is Johnny for moving prematurely losing second, Javier needed a bottle rocket up his horses ass to get to the front.

[MaTH716]

Best thing I saw yesterday on Twitter.

True Story: A great jockey was once asked “why didn’t you go to the lead like I instructed?” He said simply “I had to stay with the horse.”

[Konk]

NI finished dead last without challenging Justify.
Where he have finished if he did? Monday?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Konk

NI finished dead last without challenging Justify.
Where he have finished if he did? Monday?

He had next to no chance in the race, but regardless of how you feel about the riding tactics in the race, the ONLY chance Noble Indy had in the Belmont was to go to the lead. Of course he was last when he was rated. That was a certainty.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Best thing I saw yesterday on Twitter.

True Story: A great jockey was once asked “why didn’t you go to the lead like I instructed?” He said simply “I had to stay with the horse.”

[Dawgswin]

Repole is in charge of a company that sells tap water that is “enhanced.” That alone should make anyone question his credibility to talk about anything. If he tells you the sky is blue, double check. And if you shake his hand make sure you count all your fingers afterward.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dawgswin

Repole is in charge of a company that sells tap water that is “enhanced.” That alone should make anyone question his credibility to talk about anything. If he tells you the sky is blue, double check. And if you shake his hand make sure you count all your fingers afterward.

Have you met Mike Repole? Have you had business dealings with him? Do you know someone first hand who was hurt by him?

I have never met him nor have I dealt with him in business, so I have 0 first-hand knowledge of his business acumen or personal mannerisms. Here is what I have observed: he routinely allows NY based trainers to claim horses so they can make a living, it would be foolish to suggest there was much more behind the motive to claim a horse worth 20 grand. You never hear he is a deadbeat owner, and he supports the game at virtually every level. Is he a good guy? I have played a bunch of poker with his childhood buddies, and I was told he is the same man they knew as a broke hustling kid, he is available to them and includes them in his life, what that means is up to you to decide. To post such offensive stuff about a guy you probably never met is comical, even a drunk ass FreddyMo knows better

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

beef or not repole is great for our sport. imo

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Dawgswin

Repole is in charge of a company that sells tap water that is “enhanced.” That alone should make anyone question his credibility to talk about anything. If he tells you the sky is blue, double check. And if you shake his hand make sure you count all your fingers afterward.

How can anyone not be anything but extremely impressed by your in depth factual analysis and the logical conclusions which flow from that before your willingness to throw someone's personal reputation into the sewer.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I don't think it was sour grapes at all. Most unbiased observers agree with Repole, including myself. Don't get me wrong. I think the best horse won. But it's the principle of the whole thing.

[Dawgswin]

Originally Posted by pointman

How can anyone not be anything but extremely impressed by your in depth factual analysis and the logical conclusions which flow from that before your willingness to throw someone's personal reputation into the sewer.

I never said I wasn’t full of it, to be fair.

Also to be fair, if I can harm someone’s reputation, then one’s reputation was razor thin to start.

But it is factual analysis that the Smart Water is nonsense. I do stand behind that.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I don't think it was sour grapes at all. Most unbiased observers agree with Repole, including myself. Don't get me wrong. I think the best horse won. But it's the principle of the whole thing.

Well if you make this about principle, Repole doesn't have a leg to stand on (I don't agree that most people who understand things like rank horses and rabbits would agree with Repole). It's ironic that he has the nerve to make the claim. He was trying to set up the race for himself. It takes a lot of nerve to argue that someone else got to it before you. And Noble Indy wasn't going fast enough to get that lead. He just wasn't. They argue things don't make sense that do, trying to create a sense of impropriety where none exists. Things that are observable. If you're talking how RH was behaving, Jay Privman saw it and he's not the only one I've heard bring the rankness up. As for why he was up there in the first place, are you gonna argue that Baffert horses are not typically forwardly placed versus back in the pack? That it's not better to use tactical speed in the Belmont Stakes? RH's position and ride made sense. Castellano claims Noble Indy hit the gate among other things. I didn't go back and look at it, but if Repole expected him to go up there and wear Justify out for Vino Rosso while being sacrificed, how's he getting around that ethical issue?

People are mad their horses lost, they shouldn't have expected to win, and it's tacky as hell to make it be the first thing out of their mouths when we just had a worthy TC winner. Maybe Repole and Coburn need to go have a beer and commiserate.

[jms62]

1. Repole is a fantastic businessman and great for the game. If you want to better yourself learn from sucessful people rather than being a typical twitter troll and bashing them.

2. Baffert is a brilliant trainer who outfoxed all those who planned on sending multiple waves at Justify.

3. Horse racing won last week as we have a Triple Crown winner.

[Dawgswin]

Originally Posted by jms62

1. Repole is a fantastic businessman and great for the game. If you want to better yourself learn from sucessful people rather than being a typical twitter troll and bashing them.

2. Baffert is a brilliant trainer who outfoxed all those who planned on sending multiple waves at Justify.

3. Horse racing won last week as we have a Triple Crown winner.

Now a twitter troll? That’s just uncalled for. I don’t even have an account!

It’s all about hero worship with some of you guys until you feel it costs you a wager...

[richard burch]

No matter the tactics, I don't think anyone was beating that horse last Saturday.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Well if you make this about principle, Repole doesn't have a leg to stand on (I don't agree that most people who understand things like rank horses and rabbits would agree with Repole). It's ironic that he has the nerve to make the claim. He was trying to set up the race for himself. It takes a lot of nerve to argue that someone else got to it before you. And Noble Indy wasn't going fast enough to get that lead. He just wasn't. They argue things don't make sense that do, trying to create a sense of impropriety where none exists. Things that are observable. If you're talking how RH was behaving, Jay Privman saw it and he's not the only one I've heard bring the rankness up. As for why he was up there in the first place, are you gonna argue that Baffert horses are not typically forwardly placed versus back in the pack? That it's not better to use tactical speed in the Belmont Stakes? RH's position and ride made sense. Castellano claims Noble Indy hit the gate among other things. I didn't go back and look at it, but if Repole expected him to go up there and wear Justify out for Vino Rosso while being sacrificed, how's he getting around that ethical issue?

People are mad their horses lost, they shouldn't have expected to win, and it's tacky as hell to make it be the first thing out of their mouths when we just had a worthy TC winner. Maybe Repole and Coburn need to go have a beer and commiserate.

Rabbits have been used for years. They are part of the game. There is a difference between sending a rabbit and sending a horse that borderline fouls other horses. Geroux was right on the verge of fouling Bravazzo. He came in on him and caused him to check. And don't tell me I'm biased. I didn't like Bravazzo at all. I bet on Justify. I got +135 on him offshore. I wanted Justify to win. But I can still look at what happened objectively.

There are thousands of people out there including tons of trainers who had a problem with what happened. It's not as if it's just Repole saying something. He's simply saying the same thing that thousands of other people are saying. That is not sour grapes. How do you explain all the people out there who said the same thing as Repole?

What is going to happen next? Is a guy going to enter another horse to take out half the competition at the break? If that did ever happen in a big race, it would put the stewards in a tough position. The rider would obviously claim it was unintentional. Are the stewards going to disqualify the winning horse, if the trainer's uncoupled entry mate fouls a couple of other horses at the break?

I'm not claiming that anyone should have been disqualified in the Belmont. But I think it was an unethical, reckless and potentially dangerous thing to do. What if Bravazzo would have clipped heels and gone down? It would have created a huge scene, even if nobody got hurt. Would they have disqualified Justify? I would say probably not, but you would have people screaming twice as loud as they are right now. By the way, the stewards do have the power to disqualify an uncoupled entry mate (even with a different owner), if he fouls someone to the benefit of the other entry mate.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by richard burch

No matter the tactics, I don't think anyone was beating that horse last Saturday.

I agree.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Rabbits have been used for years. They are part of the game. There is a difference between sending a rabbit and sending a horse that borderline fouls other horses. Geroux was right on the verge of fouling Bravazzo. He came in on him and caused him to check. And don't tell me I'm biased. I didn't like Bravazzo at all. I bet on Justify. I got +135 on him offshore. I wanted Justify to win. But I can still look at what happened objectively.

There are thousands of people out there including tons of trainers who had a problem with what happened. It's not as if it's just Repole saying something. He's simply saying the same thing that thousands of other people are saying. That is not sour grapes. How do you explain all the people out there who said the same thing as Repole?

What is going to happen next? Is a guy going to enter another horse to take out half the competition at the break? If that did ever happen in a big race, it would put the stewards in a tough position. The rider would obviously claim it was unintentional. Are the stewards going to disqualify the winning horse, if the trainer's uncoupled entry mate fouls a couple of other horses at the break?

I'm not claiming that anyone should have been disqualified in the Belmont. But I think it was an unethical, reckless and potentially dangerous thing to do. What if Bravazzo would have clipped heels and gone down? It would have created a huge scene, even if nobody got hurt. Would they have disqualified Justify? I would say probably not, but you would have people screaming twice as loud as they are right now. By the way, the stewards do have the power to disqualify an uncoupled entry mate (even with a different owner), if he fouls someone to the benefit of the other entry mate.

You must have watched a different race than I did to suggest Restoring Hope did anything that remotely came close to making Bravazo clip heels and go down. In reality, he drifted out slightly going into the first turn before straightening and holding the two path, i.e. the same trip anyone who wanted to be aggressive could’ve gotten. Then he packed it in just in time for Vino Rosso to take his best shot at Justify, which wasn’t near good enough.

I love the idea that rabbits are just good old-fashioned gamesmanship but running an anti-rabbit is somehow a disgrace that needs to be investigated. No amount of hysteria or exaggeration or made-up hypotheticals will allow you to have that both ways. Killer redboard on your 6/5 Justify bet though.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You must have watched a different race than I did to suggest Restoring Hope did anything that remotely came close to making Bravazo clip heels and go down. In reality, he drifted out slightly going into the first turn before straightening and holding the two path, i.e. the same trip anyone who wanted to be aggressive could’ve gotten. Then he packed it in just in time for Vino Rosso to take his best shot at Justify, which wasn’t near good enough.

I love the idea that rabbits are just good old-fashioned gamesmanship but running an anti-rabbit is somehow a disgrace that needs to be investigated. No amount of hysteria or exaggeration or made-up hypotheticals will allow you to have that both ways. Killer redboard on your 6/5 Justify bet though.

How did you know that I mentioned the bet to redboard and not to let Merlinsky know that I was not biased? That was an astute observation on your part. I'm a big redboarder, especially with 6-5 shots. Winning with a 6-5 favorite is a huge accomplishment.

I just watched it again. The incident with Bravazzo was not as bad as I originally thought. He came in on him a little bit and put him in a little tight, but it wasn't that bad. But still, one minute he is trying to force horses wide, then the next minute he is coming in to try to put Bravazzo in a tight spot. Trying to interfere with other horses is more extreme than putting a rabbit in a race IMO.