8/19 (DMR): Pacific Classic, DMR Oaks (G1's), DMR Handicap (G2)

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by pointman

For a trainer who just won the Pacific Classic, Baffert doesn't look too excited

He knows who the better horse is. It has to be frustrating.

[RHT2004]

I think he has to come to Belmont for the JCGC. He obviously dislikes this track.

[cakes44]

Curlin as a 4-year-old.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Curlin as a 4-year-old.

Did he run 1 teen beyers? Because im pretty sure Arrogate just ran in the 110-115 range.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Did he run 1 teen beyers? Because im pretty sure Arrogate just ran in the 110-115 range.

110, 112, and 111 post Dubai before the BCC for Curlin.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by cakes44

110, 112, and 111 post Dubai before the BCC for Curlin.

I dont remember him being that fast. When did he run 2nd to Red Rocks? Was that post Dubai?

[cakes44]

Well yeah...on turf.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

I think he has to come to Belmont for the JCGC. He obviously dislikes this track.

I'm not totally convinced that it is the track, particularly considering both Baffert and Smith's reaction.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by pointman

I'm not totally convinced that it is the track, particularly considering both Baffert and Smith's reaction.

It's not the track. The horse ran a few great races buts that's it. He got a pass for last race not being ready but he was beat fair and square today by a horse that is getting better each race. He is very over rated based on four races. I'd be surprised if he runs again.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

It's not the track. The horse ran a few great races buts that's it. He got a pass for last race not being ready but he was beat fair and square today by a horse that is getting better each race. He is very over rated based on four races. I'd be surprised if he runs again.

Is 4 a few? And what was today if you're Collected is so good?
Calling him overrated shows a lack of understanding from you. I thought you were sharper, but as time goes on Im not so sure.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Is 4 a few? And what was today if you're Collected is so good?
Calling him overrated shows a lack of understanding from you. I thought you were sharper, but as time goes on Im not so sure.

Give collected his due. He was excellent today and the best horse out there now.I can't believe you as a baffert fan don't see that. Again arrogate had a nice few races but I like horses that run more often and win more . Four races doesn't make me think greatness sorry. I really don't care if you think I'm sharp or not. I play this game cause I enjoy it. I have ups and downs. You mocked me when I said connected would win. Arrogate had a exciting four races but great horses don't blame tracks when they lose.

[Kasept]

Privman PacClassic recap with Baffert reactions: http://www.drf.com/news/collected-ho...acific-classic

2:00.3 10f efforts looking like 112 Beyer for Collected, 111 for Arrogate per Jay..

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

It's not the track. The horse ran a few great races buts that's it. He got a pass for last race not being ready but he was beat fair and square today by a horse that is getting better each race. He is very over rated based on four races. I'd be surprised if he runs again.

Smith said he was having trouble getting ahold of it. He can't push off as well. He did better this time so it's possible to work on it vs concede he's doomed. Baffert seemed to believe he could get him ready off a layoff. He's basically got til November to teach Arrogate to learn to tolerate Del Mar. I get the feeling if he spends enough time working over it, he'll get to a place of making peace with the track. He'll never love it, but he might be able to do well enough that he can still win.

I think Baffert was loathe to just go 'ugh the track, he hates it' in part because the minute you say that, there's a point where you just don't get to go to the Breeders Cup. Because why would you if he's gonna tank it due to the track? If he doesn't want to bypass the Classic, he has to find a way to deal with it, and I think we saw enough that he can justify pressing on and making whatever adjustments he can. Arrogate did better when he was hussled. Clearly that's part of what's required.

[Indian Charlie]

Baffert should consider Arrogates next workout being at Santa Anita. If he looks really sharp, then its safe to say its the surface. Work him out again at DMR to make sure.

Then again, whats the point? If it is DMR, where would they run him? If it's not DMR, why would they run him? In other words, just retire him.

[taxicab]

Collected is now 7 for 7 on the fast.
He's really,really good now............nothing counterfeit about him.
He might give Gun Runner a run for his money.
I wonder what happened to Arrogate's early lick ?
Today's trip for Arrogate was very similar to his BC Classic go,he just wasn't up to the winner.
It kind of looks like Arrogate needs to be pushed along now to get his best run........I'm not sure what to make of that.
Arrogate might not care for DMR,but nobody will know if he's near the same horse until he tries another track in this,his second season.........and that's not on his menu.
Accelerate seems a perfect fit for the BC Dirt Mile,he enjoys the 8th furlong a lot more than the 10th.........plus he's fond of DMR,and of course the competition will be easier.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Smith said he was having trouble getting ahold of it. He can't push off as well. He did better this time so it's possible to work on it vs concede he's doomed. Baffert seemed to believe he could get him ready off a layoff. He's basically got til November to teach Arrogate to learn to tolerate Del Mar. I get the feeling if he spends enough time working over it, he'll get to a place of making peace with the track. He'll never love it, but he might be able to do well enough that he can still win.

I think Baffert was loathe to just go 'ugh the track, he hates it' in part because the minute you say that, there's a point where you just don't get to go to the Breeders Cup. Because why would you if he's gonna tank it due to the track? If he doesn't want to bypass the Classic, he has to find a way to deal with it, and I think we saw enough that he can justify pressing on and making whatever adjustments he can. Arrogate did better when he was hussled. Clearly that's part of what's required.

I am skeptical that his below par performances are due to the track. Don't get me wrong. I am a big believer in horses for courses and in horses not liking certain tracks. I'm just not sure that this is one of those cases. But let's assume you are right and Arrogate doesn't like the surface. I have never heard of horses improving on surfaces that they don't like. If a horse doesn't like a track he's not going to improve over it with practice.

[knickslions2]

115 beyer for collected

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I am skeptical that his below par performances are due to the track. Don't get me wrong. I am a big believer in horses for courses and in horses not liking certain tracks. I'm just not sure that this is one of those cases. But let's assume you are right and Arrogate doesn't like the surface. I have never heard of horses improving on surfaces that they don't like. If a horse doesn't like a track he's not going to improve over it with practice.

That's exactly how I feel. I was taught years ago that horses like or dislike tracks for different reasons. Maybe they have trouble getting the footing. Maybe the track stings their feet. Any number of reasons. I was also taught that the best effort a horse will give on a track they don't like is the first race. Horses make mental notes and they try to protect themselves and the more they run on something that's not comfortable, the worse they will do.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

It's not the track. The horse ran a few great races buts that's it. He got a pass for last race not being ready but he was beat fair and square today by a horse that is getting better each race. He is very over rated based on four races. I'd be surprised if he runs again.

This is insane. He ran a 114 Beyer and lost by a diminishing half-length while covering 51 more feet than the winner. The idea that that's some huge disappointment should tell you that he is the opposite of "very overrated."

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is insane. He ran a 114 Beyer while covering 51 more feet than the winner. The idea that that's some huge disappointment should tell you that he is the opposite of "very overrated."

Thanks.