7/23-24 (SAR): CCA Oaks (G1); Caress

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Hey, I'm always willing to listen and maybe learn something. But do you think Baffert is happy with the ride if his horse loses by a head?

Yes. His chief competition on paper was eliminated at the break, so he was aggressive into a soft middle split with the best horse. Would you have preferred he dragged Abel Tasman out of the race irrespective of the break/pace and potentially gotten boxed in as the field compressed and Salty went around him nearing the stretch? I see enough of those rides daily in New York to know they almost never work out. And that's not even getting to the race-riding he did in the final furlong, which was just enough to win but not enough to get DQ'ed. To me, Smith's move seems aberrant because there is so little aggressive riding here, when it actually was smart and something to be emulated. Same thing with Bravo's ride on Muqtaser on opening day. It should be a no-brainer to take control when they're going :52 to the half, but so few riders have the balls to do that, which made it look like a Hall of Fame ride in comparison.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yes. His chief competition on paper was eliminated at the break, so he was aggressive into a soft middle split with the best horse. Would you have preferred he dragged Abel Tasman out of the race irrespective of the break/pace and potentially gotten boxed in as the field compressed and Salty went around him nearing the stretch? I see enough of those rides daily in New York to know they almost never work out. And that's not even getting to the race-riding he did in the final furlong, which was just enough to win but not enough to get DQ'ed. To me, Smith's move seems aberrant because there is so little aggressive riding here, when it actually was smart and something to be emulated. Same thing with Bravo's ride on Muqtaser on opening day. It should be a no-brainer to take control when they're going :52 to the half, but so few riders have the balls to do that, which made it look like a Hall of Fame ride in comparison.

He didn't have to drag Abel Tasman out of the race, she tends to settle in the back in all her starts, as she did yesterday. It's one thing to sense a slow pace with a closer and have her sharp early, but Abel Tasman was a good 8 lengths off the front when the field hit the backstretch. Smith then asked her to make up all that ground in a sharp early move. It was risky because even the longshot pacesetters (Summer Luck and Berned) are not completely void of talent, and so were able to make bids approaching the far turn. Abel Tasman had to take a lot of pressure from all sides entering the stretch and Smith, despite being on an overwhelming favorite, had to "race ride" in the stretch to ensure the victory.

He rather could have simply settled in a position similar to fellow closer Daddys Lil Darling, or simply followed his tactics in the Acorn, when he gradually moved Abel Tasman in a position to pounce and blow the race open on the turn. We know she can make up ground quickly.

A similar move against better horses (perhaps Holy Helena or older horses) won't be successful and for all we know, given the battle she was forced to participate in, this particular ride may actually cost her a start in the Alabama.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

He rather could have simply settled in a position similar to fellow closer Daddys Lil Darling, or simply followed his tactics in the Acorn, when he gradually moved Abel Tasman in a position to pounce and blow the race open on the turn. We know she can make up ground quickly.

He got extremely lucky in the Acorn when the seas parted for him along the inside. There was no guarantee that would happen again. Instead, he saw Salty miss the break, sensed the slowing pace and took the bull by the horns with the best horse. I wish more riders in New York would be that aggressive.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He got extremely lucky in the Acorn when the seas parted for him along the inside. There was no guarantee that would happen again. Instead, he saw Salty miss the break, sensed the slowing pace and took the bull by the horns with the best horse. I wish more riders in New York would be that aggressive.

I like the move too as the 5 was getting pretty comfy up there and was looking at 50 half which could have made that horse tough to catch. Was a great gutsy ride on the best horse.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

I like the move too as the 5 was getting pretty comfy up there and was looking at 50 half which could have made that horse tough to catch. Was a great gutsy ride on the best horse.

If Summer Luck, a non-winners 1x horse, was a threat to Mike Smith, then it must have been because she was a daughter of Lookin At Lucky (who sired Arrogate-killer Accelerate).

In fact, Smith was probably still reeling from that race and panicked that the same thing would happen to Abel Tasman unless he shook her up early. Almost cost him.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

If Summer Luck, a non-winners 1x horse, was a threat to Mike Smith, then it must have been because she was a daughter of Lookin At Lucky (who sired Arrogate-killer Accelerate).

In fact, Smith was probably still reeling from that race and panicked that the same thing would happen to Abel Tasman unless he shook her up early. Almost cost him.

Summer Luck is not in same class but had that look of a horse that can steal it from the lead. Was moving very easy up front and I think Mike sensed it. Could he have still ran it down probably but he was confident in his horse to make the move. He has had a few rides over the years where he thought he was on Zenyetta and was too far out of it.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He got extremely lucky in the Acorn when the seas parted for him along the inside. There was no guarantee that would happen again. Instead, he saw Salty miss the break, sensed the slowing pace and took the bull by the horns with the best horse. I wish more riders in New York would be that aggressive.

My point is Smith didn't need to be aggressive. The filly was not "extremely lucky" to win the Acorn. Smith didn't need for a dream run on the rail for the horse to win that race. Abel Tasman has proved she can win pretty much from anywhere against these sorts of rivals.

All Smith did was tax the filly, nearly got her beat, and almost got her DQ'd. If he wanted to take it to them, he should have done so from the outset, not 3 furlongs into the race with 8 lengths to make up.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

My point is Smith didn't need to be aggressive. The filly was not "extremely lucky" to win the Acorn. Smith didn't need for a dream run on the rail for the horse to win that race. Abel Tasman has proved she can win pretty much from anywhere against these sorts of rivals.

All Smith did was tax the filly, nearly got her beat, and almost got her DQ'd. If he wanted to take it to them, he should have done so from the outset, not 3 furlongs into the race with 8 lengths to make up.

I didn't say the filly was extremely lucky, I said Smith was lucky that there was a hole at the rail. If he gets stopped there, he loses. Period. You wanted him to take the same risk again, irrespective of circumstances, instead of "taxing the filly" by sending her into a 25-second quarter down a straightaway after his main competition missed the break.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I didn't say the filly was extremely lucky, I said Smith was lucky that there was a hole at the rail. If he gets stopped there, he loses. Period.

This is very presumptuous. Firstly, Smith only went for the hole because it was, in fact, there. He didn't sit behind horses waiting for it to open. From the looks of it, he was looking to split tiring horses rather than follow Salty wide through the turn. Seeing fellow closer Union Strike under a drive at the 3/8s pole probably gave Smith confidence there would be room to run in the pocket.

You wanted him to take the same risk again, irrespective of circumstances, instead of "taxing the filly" by sending her into a 25-second quarter down a straightaway after his main competition missed the break.

It was hardly a risk in the Acorn. Again, the hole was there. If it wasn't, Smith would have simply split horses (it was a 6-horse field) and been able to unleash her turn of foot at the top of the stretch. She wouldn't have got the jump on Salty perhaps, but considering she's handle that rival 3 times now, it probably didn't matter.

As for Salty missing the break in the CCA Oaks, wasn't that pretty much the death knell for her race? Note her wide sweep and wilt in the stretch. How Smith moving Abel Tasman way too early somehow helped exploit the fact that Salty missed the break is beyond me. The damage had already been done. He should have won the race by open lengths, not survived an inquiry.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It was hardly a risk in the Acorn. Again, the hole was there. If it wasn't, Smith would have simply split horses (it was a 6-horse field) and been able to unleash her turn of foot at the top of the stretch. She wouldn't have got the jump on Salty perhaps, but considering she's handle that rival 3 times now, it probably didn't matter.

As for Salty missing the break in the CCA Oaks, wasn't that pretty much the death knell for her race? Note her wide sweep and wilt in the stretch. How Smith moving Abel Tasman way too early somehow helped exploit the fact that Salty missed the break is beyond me. The damage had already been done. He should have won the race by open lengths, not survived an inquiry.

She's beaten Salty three times with much better trips each time. You left that part out.

And the point was to take advantage of Salty breaking slowly by putting as much distance on her as he could while up on a slow pace, instead of having her alongside Salty at the rear and having to outmaneuver her from the back again. Why put yourself in that position again when the race is there for the taking? I noticed you don't have an argument for why it's bad to be aggressive into a 25-second middle split when no one else wants the lead.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He got extremely lucky in the Acorn when the seas parted for him along the inside. There was no guarantee that would happen again. Instead, he saw Salty miss the break, sensed the slowing pace and took the bull by the horns with the best horse. I wish more riders in New York would be that aggressive.

Agree 100%. Balls ride. No risk, no reward. See Cordero 1984 Marlboro Cup. Frank Wright tells Angel directly on the replay.."you've committed to the lead, you're bum of the month if you get caught...