NYRA Late Pick 5

[taxicab]

Here's how it shook out at the OTB yesterday:
The punters saw the P-5 advertised on the Belmont feed,they wanted to play into the bet..........they couldn't.
When the OTB management explained to them exactly why they couldn't play the P-5........it didn't go over well.
It probably wasn't such a great idea to hit heavy with the P-5 advertising on the NY signal,and then not allow most of the betting public to play it.
Just saying.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Here's how it shook out at the OTB yesterday:
The punters saw the P-5 advertised on the Belmont feed,they wanted to play into the bet..........they couldn't.
When the OTB management explained to them exactly why they couldn't play the P-5........it didn't go over well.
It probably wasn't such a great idea to hit heavy with the P-5 advertising on the NY signal,and then not allow most of the betting public to play it.
Just saying.

Wasn't that the point? You keep people standing outside a nightclub and they just have to get in. You tell them if they use a Platinum AMEX they get certain privileges. You tell them they need to bet thru NYRA Bets to have access to this exclusive wager, they watch they get pissed they would have hit the pik 5 and sign up. Mind you NYRA does offer a very good rewards platform.

Like you I am uncertain if it pans out but I cant blame them for trying something

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Wasn't that the point? You keep people standing outside a nightclub and they just have to get in. You tell them if they use a Platinum AMEX they get certain privileges. You tell them they need to bet thru NYRA Bets to have access to this exclusive wager, they watch they get pissed they would have hit the pik 5 and sign up. Mind you NYRA does offer a very good rewards platform.

Like you I am uncertain if it pans out but I cant blame them for trying something

Here's the hook Freddy,a majority of the people at OTB's/race tracks don't play via ADW's.
They are pretty much a cash through the machines lot(for various reasons).
Truthfully I was a bit surprised at the interest shown in the bet yesterday.
I suppose the fact that Belmont had the high quality card had a lot to do with it.......apparently people really love the P-4/5.
I'm only guessing here,but I imagine the bettors just took their P-5 money and shipped it to GP/MTH/WOOD etc. when they couldn't play the wager they wanted.
In terms of the other ADW's, I would guess the players weren't pleased about being denied the chance to play the bet.
I'm thinking the NYRA left a lot of money on the table,and probably didn't score a whole lot of points with some of their more loyal bettors.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Here's the hook Freddy,a majority of the people at OTB's/race tracks don't play via ADW's.
They are pretty much a cash through the machines lot(for various reasons).
Truthfully I was a bit surprised at the interest shown in the bet yesterday.
I suppose the fact that Belmont had the high quality card had a lot to do with it.......apparently people really love the P-4/5.
I'm only guessing here,but I imagine the bettors just took their P-5 money and shipped it to GP/MTH/WOOD etc. when they couldn't play the wager they wanted.
In terms of the other ADW's, I would guess the players weren't pleased about being denied the chance to play the bet.
I'm thinking the NYRA left a lot of money on the table,and probably didn't score a whole lot of points with some of their more loyal bettors.

All true. If you are looking to build an ADW to compliment the best circuit in country you need to look to the future. Yes guys come to OTB's with X dollars to have fun and bet a few hundy for the day, all true. I think Andy is right its a complicated issue that has +/-'s, give it time IMO and see how it plays out

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

All true. If you are looking to build an ADW to compliment the best circuit in country you need to look to the future. Yes guys come to OTB's with X dollars to have fun and bet a few hundy for the day, all true. I think Andy is right its a complicated issue that has +/-'s, give it time IMO and see how it plays out

And it may be a provincial acknowledgement, but the revenue generated by NYRA Bets ~ because it's considered as 'at the track' wagering ~ substantially benefits the capital improvement, backstretch and breeding programs in New York.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Kasept

And it may be a provincial acknowledgement, but the revenue generated by NYRA Bets ~ because it's considered as 'at the track' wagering ~ substantially benefits the capital improvement, backstretch and breeding programs in New York.

This is absolutely the critical point. The NYRA Bets Late Pick 5 is an effort (experiment) by NYRA to regain control of a single parimutuel pool that has been requested by bettors. When you are talking about NYRA races, pool size is not the issue, so we are seeing NYRA using their market leadership to gain exclusivity for a new bet.

To those without New York ADW or NYRA Bets access, this might seem like it is decreasing the pool size. However, it is really clear that NYRA has NOT taken this Late Pick-5 pool as just another revenue source. NYRA is strategically testing their ability to control the product - meaning owning the racing, the signal, and the mutuel pool.

While this might be "complicated", NYRA is doing something BRILLIANT to rebuild their wagering market.

[KidCruz]

Originally Posted by Kasept

And it may be a provincial acknowledgement, but the revenue generated by NYRA Bets ~ because it's considered as 'at the track' wagering ~ substantially benefits the capital improvement, backstretch and breeding programs in New York.

Respectfully Steve, this logic is such a stretch that even NYRA themselves hasn't reached this deep into the reasoning jar for it.


Remember in the winter when Andy made the extremely cogent and necessary criticism of the Pegasus purse structure? What if Gulfstream had said "Hey! Promoting this as a $12 million dollar race allows us to get on NBC and allows us to bring in more handle, HELPING DEVELOPMENT AND BACKSTRETCH EMPLOYEES?" Would that have been sound enough reasoning?

How about when Steve Crist (boy do we miss his voice) went right at Churchill Downs for the shameful siphoning of the Derby Day Pick 6 pool to build a pot for a jackpot bet? What if Churchill Downs came out and said "Hey! By building this jackpot pool, we will exponentially increase daily handle in a sagging bet, TRIGGERING CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS." Would that have been sound enough reasoning?

Everything is about dollars and cents and trying to sugar coat it with some altruistic idea about development and the backstretch is completely unfair and a benefit of the doubt the rest of the industry would not and should not get.

This is a promotion to draw customers to their ADW. Trying to present it as anything else is slap in the face, especially to people who have betting NYRA all their lives in PA, NJ etc.

[Kasept]

I was referring to the benefits of the overall revenue that NYRA Bets generates.. not suggesting it as a justification for the promotion. However, I will reiterate that the platform provides more benefit to the industry by its' design than any other betting operation. And I acknowledged it's a provincial view, but as a stable, I'm involved in breeding and racing NY breds and have a vested interest.

As you said, they're trying to draw people to the platform. Despite the excluded jurisdictions, it's available to a vast majority of players. It's an imperfect concept.

[Kasept]

P4/P5 this year: $1,455,000, P4 alone last year: $1,399,000.

Nobody took their money and stormed off.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Kasept

P4/P5 this year: $1,455,000, P4 alone last year: $1,399,000.

Nobody took their money and stormed off.

Pretzel Logic.
Here's why:
If Yesterday's P-5 from Belmont was open to everybody throughout North America(all race tracks/OTB/ADW's) the handle on that bet alone would of cracked 2 million minimum.......maybe 3 million.
Now add that number in with the P-4 and there you have it.
And where do you think the money the bettors wanted to bet on the P-5 but couldn't went ?
I think it's a safe guess to say that it was spent on wagers that 95% of the public could actually make.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Pretzel Logic.
Here's why:
If Yesterday's P-5 from Belmont was open to everybody throughout North America(all race tracks/OTB/ADW's) the handle on that bet alone would of cracked 2 million minimum.......maybe 3 million.
Now add that number in with the P-4 and there you have it.
And where do you think the money the bettors wanted to bet on the P-5 but couldn't went ?
I think it's a safe guess to say that it was spent on wagers that 95% of the public could actually make.

You said everyone took their money to other venues. They didn't. The potential of the wager to an unrestricted audience is a different discussion. That wasn't the discussion you initiated, so take your bait and switch tactics elsewhere..

[Kasept]

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You said everyone took their money to other venues. They didn't. The potential of the wager to an unrestricted audience is a different discussion. That wasn't the discussion you initiated, so take your bait and switch tactics elsewhere..

Of course they took their money where they could bet it......that's why they're at the track.......to bet their money.......they couldn't bet their money on the P-5 yesterday........the betting public was unhappy,they didn't like it.
It's that simple.
And I didn't bait and switch anything,I'm just pointing out how the betting public reacts to a restricted wager..........in this case it's the restricted NYRA P-5.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Pretzel Logic.
Here's why:
If Yesterday's P-5 from Belmont was open to everybody throughout North America(all race tracks/OTB/ADW's) the handle on that bet alone would of cracked 2 million minimum.......maybe 3 million.

This is hilariously wrong.