Anyone qualify for DRF/NTRA Handicapping Tournament 2007?

[eajinabi]

I have not BUT I am going to really get into it this year hoping to get a berth in the 2008 tournament. If any of you guys been to these tournaments please tell me what I should do or avoid doing when I am in a contest.

I played in the youbet contests few years back and was ranked 25th out of 600 plus but it wasn't enough to secure a berth.

[The Bid]

Whatever you do dont get drunk

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Whatever you do dont get drunk

You Got It!

[Scav]

I think NC Tony qualified this year. I remember reading this on the Thorograph message board.

[pweizer]

I have not qualified yet this year but have twice prior. PM me if you want to talk specifics. I will be happy to answer any questions you have.

Paul

[philcski]

Missed by a head @ Kee from qualifying... literally. Was only my 2nd try at a tournament so I'm not complaining.

[Bravado2112]

I did not qualify this year, but have in the past and have had some degree of success in other tournaments. Tournaments require a big learning curve - especially these days when the competition has gotten tougher and there's far less "dead money" and a lot of sharp people/teams playing these things. The hardest thing to do is to shift your focus entirely to a tournament-play mentality and not a betting or profit mentality. Passing on a sure 4-1 winner or placing a max bet on a horse who isn't your top choice is counter to what you're used to doing, but it's often necessary in tournament play. You're playing to outfinish 200 people on a random isolated day, not show a profit. Maximizing the non-mandatory races is essential.

There are many different types of structures (live money, mandatory races, odds caps etc) and being flexible enough to adjust your play to reflect the rules is required. So is having an idea of what type of score is necessary to win and being clearheaded enough to focus on getting to that number without distraction from the leaderboard and the people screaming every time a longshot wins. At the same time, you also have to be able to adjust your play later in the day to reflect where you are in the standings and do what's necessary to give yourself a chance to get near the top or to protect a lead.

Just like in regular betting, prepare to pay for an education. You're not going to show up and beat 200 veteran tournament players simply by handicapping well. There are resources available for some degree of help and ideally some time spent playing on paper and simply watching a couple of tournaments to learn your way around them would probably be helpful. There are some cheap online tournaments that are probably worth playing to get your feet wet as well. That's just a start but the most essential component is understanding and adjusting to the difference between betting and tournament play.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Bravado2112

I did not qualify this year, but have in the past and have had some degree of success in other tournaments. Tournaments require a big learning curve - especially these days when the competition has gotten tougher and there's far less "dead money" and a lot of sharp people/teams playing these things. The hardest thing to do is to shift your focus entirely to a tournament-play mentality and not a betting or profit mentality. Passing on a sure 4-1 winner or placing a max bet on a horse who isn't your top choice is counter to what you're used to doing, but it's often necessary in tournament play. You're playing to outfinish 200 people on a random isolated day, not show a profit. Maximizing the non-mandatory races is essential.

There are many different types of structures (live money, mandatory races, odds caps etc) and being flexible enough to adjust your play to reflect the rules is required. So is having an idea of what type of score is necessary to win and being clearheaded enough to focus on getting to that number without distraction from the leaderboard and the people screaming every time a longshot wins. At the same time, you also have to be able to adjust your play later in the day to reflect where you are in the standings and do what's necessary to give yourself a chance to get near the top or to protect a lead.

Just like in regular betting, prepare to pay for an education. You're not going to show up and beat 200 veteran tournament players simply by handicapping well. There are resources available for some degree of help and ideally some time spent playing on paper and simply watching a couple of tournaments to learn your way around them would probably be helpful. There are some cheap online tournaments that are probably worth playing to get your feet wet as well. That's just a start but the most essential component is understanding and adjusting to the difference between betting and tournament play.

Great advice, and as a side note I think I've found the other "world's biggest Rush fan"...

[Bravado2112]

Originally Posted by philcski

Great advice, and as a side note I think I've found the other "world's biggest Rush fan"...

Haha...I was wondering if anyone was going to pick up on the Rush In Rio dragon picture!

I'm a bit down on the band these days and they're usually not at the top of my playlist anymore, but they're still clearly my #1 band and I would definitely qualify as a diehard. Seen them 31 times over the years including 8 shows last tour! Definitely looking forward to the new album and remain (foolishly?) hopeful that it's a good one and better than the past few. My ultimate wish is to take some trips over the summer where Rush shows and big handicapping tournaments happen to take place in the same week in a fun city. One can dream...

[todko]

Originally Posted by Bravado2112

I did not qualify this year, but have in the past and have had some degree of success in other tournaments. Tournaments require a big learning curve - especially these days when the competition has gotten tougher and there's far less "dead money" and a lot of sharp people/teams playing these things. The hardest thing to do is to shift your focus entirely to a tournament-play mentality and not a betting or profit mentality. Passing on a sure 4-1 winner or placing a max bet on a horse who isn't your top choice is counter to what you're used to doing, but it's often necessary in tournament play. You're playing to outfinish 200 people on a random isolated day, not show a profit. Maximizing the non-mandatory races is essential.

There are many different types of structures (live money, mandatory races, odds caps etc) and being flexible enough to adjust your play to reflect the rules is required. So is having an idea of what type of score is necessary to win and being clearheaded enough to focus on getting to that number without distraction from the leaderboard and the people screaming every time a longshot wins. At the same time, you also have to be able to adjust your play later in the day to reflect where you are in the standings and do what's necessary to give yourself a chance to get near the top or to protect a lead.

Just like in regular betting, prepare to pay for an education. You're not going to show up and beat 200 veteran tournament players simply by handicapping well. There are resources available for some degree of help and ideally some time spent playing on paper and simply watching a couple of tournaments to learn your way around them would probably be helpful. There are some cheap online tournaments that are probably worth playing to get your feet wet as well. That's just a start but the most essential component is understanding and adjusting to the difference between betting and tournament play.

Very well said bravado.

Contest play is so much different. If I'm betting and lose through the first races -- then I'm usually playing more conservative in the later races. If I'm in a contest and lose through the first races -- then I'm definitely playing more aggressively in the later races. At at certain point in a contest, if you're behind in points, just like a boxer who's losing on points you have to start throwing the haymaker or knockout punch because it's you're only chance.

In every contest that I've finished well in -- I've always started well. Never made it to the big dance. Only had the chance to play three live contests this year. Keeneland (summer), Churchill, and Ellis Park. Next year I hope to play more.

I have a close friend who qualified for both Vegas contests in 2007. Part of his recipe is to play at least 10 - 15 contests per year. He's a damn good 'capper too.

Hope this helps.

[Bravado2112]

Originally Posted by todko

I have a close friend who qualified for both Vegas contests in 2007. Part of his recipe is to play at least 10 - 15 contests per year. He's a damn good 'capper too.

Hope this helps.

That's another important point. If your primary goal is to qualify for Vegas - and you have the time and funds to allow for travel - then it makes sense to pursue certain "softer" spots and to play often. Noel Michaels has a book on Handicapping Contests that is usually updated to reflect which ones have more favorable qualifying scenarios. It's not really fair, but certain contests in remote locations might offer 3 qualifying spots and have 87 people competing who mostly aren't even tournament veterans. On the flipside, certain Northeastern contests (ie - NY, CT) might offer the same 3 or even just 2 qualifying spots and have 200-300 tough veteran tournament players.

I'm from NY and I really don't travel for any contests - which makes it pretty tough. The Aqueduct and Belmont contests generally offer 3 spots for 200 people and feature tons of past champions, qualifiers, and experienced tournament players. They're now $400 to enter so you know that most people doing it aren't just throwing down 50 bucks on a lark...they're experienced and they're there to win. It's far different than competing in a contest at Stampede Park or something like that where it's a small field with few top notch players. On the positive side, when I did qualify out of the Aqueduct contest, it was as gratifying as could be.

[MaTH716]

Another tip, find out what tracks are involved in the contest and get familiar with them. That was my downfall. I entered one of the Aqueduct contests about three years ago. Being from N.Y. I was familiar with the trainers jocks some of the horses and more important the bias of the track. The other track in play was Churchill, and besides derby time I really do not play it often. So in the long run it hurt me. I didn't hit one race from there all weekend. I did do very well the first day at Aqueduct, I think I was 5-5, but unfortunatley some of the races at Aqu were unplayable. After the first day I was first out of 200 people. On the second day, It just seemed every horse payed $40.00 dollars and I didn't have them. I ended up coming in 12th place. So I did make some money. It was cool, I never thought I would be in the money, let alone have a chance to win. I remember walking into the contest and seeing people with laptops and briefcases and all I had was a form and a notebook in my Monmouth Park bag. It was a very cool expierience, I would like to try again soon. Good Luck!

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by Bravado2112

That's another important point. If your primary goal is to qualify for Vegas - and you have the time and funds to allow for travel - then it makes sense to pursue certain "softer" spots and to play often. Noel Michaels has a book on Handicapping Contests that is usually updated to reflect which ones have more favorable qualifying scenarios. It's not really fair, but certain contests in remote locations might offer 3 qualifying spots and have 87 people competing who mostly aren't even tournament veterans. On the flipside, certain Northeastern contests (ie - NY, CT) might offer the same 3 or even just 2 qualifying spots and have 200-300 tough veteran tournament players.

I'm from NY and I really don't travel for any contests - which makes it pretty tough. The Aqueduct and Belmont contests generally offer 3 spots for 200 people and feature tons of past champions, qualifiers, and experienced tournament players. They're now $400 to enter so you know that most people doing it aren't just throwing down 50 bucks on a lark...they're experienced and they're there to win. It's far different than competing in a contest at Stampede Park or something like that where it's a small field with few top notch players. On the positive side, when I did qualify out of the Aqueduct contest, it was as gratifying as could be.

I just purchased that book from Amazon today and it should arrive next week.
Should help me get some insight on the little tricks of the contest.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I just purchased that book from Amazon today and it should arrive next week.
Should help me get some insight on the little tricks of the contest.

OT...your dog is adorable in your avatar

[Bravado2112]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I just purchased that book from Amazon today and it should arrive next week.
Should help me get some insight on the little tricks of the contest.

You also might want to look at some of the material here: http://www.horseplayerdaily.com/cat/...Home+Page.html

They have a bunch of articles on strategy (by Noel Michaels) as well as interviews with some of the top tournament players on a variety of topics...

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

OT...your dog is adorable in your avatar

Thanks but he is no longer alive. He died of parvo few weeks after I got him. His name was SUPERSTAR