1/28 (GP): $12MM Pegasus World Cup

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

When I say best ever I guess I get a tad excited. I should say best I have seen. My knowledge of the game goes back to like the late 90s. The best horses I have seen are Point Given, Bernardini and Ghostzapper. Ghostzapper being 1 by a lot. I have seen monster races from Quality Road and Frosted, but never anyone paring races up like Arrogate. Has a horse even Ghostzapper ever run 3 races like Arrogate just has?

I kind of figured that. Appreciate the clarification.

All of Ghostzapper's route races were monster races(his last 4). Plus among those he beat in those races were Saint Liam, Roses in May, and Pleasantly Perfect, all of which were better horses than anything Arrogate has faced, including Chrome, IMO.

[10 pnt move up]

Maybe want to check Timeform's site, looks like the race may have had some severe timing issues.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I kind of figured that. Appreciate the clarification.

All of Ghostzapper's route races were monster races(his last 4). Plus among those he beat in those races were Saint Liam, Roses in May, and Pleasantly Perfect, all of which were better horses than anything Arrogate has faced, including Chrome, IMO.

I just cannot agree that Roses in May or Pleasantly Perfect were better the than CC, Saint Liam probably not as well.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I just cannot agree that Roses in May or Pleasantly Perfect were better the than CC, Saint Liam probably not as well.

Just my opinion of course. Does CC's Classic last year beat Roses in May in '04? I have my doubts. Pleasantly Perfect beat MDO twice on the square, which is good enough for me, though PP wasn't his best when Ghostzapper beat him. Saint Liam's Woodward vs Ghostzapper is better than anything CC has run, and he also won a BC Classic. If they weren't better, they are most certainly in the discussion.

To throw another horse in there from that timeframe...I'm not positive CC is better than Congaree either.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Just my opinion of course. Does CC's Classic last year beat Roses in May in '04. I have my doubts. Pleasantly Perfect beat MDO twice on the square, which is good enough for me, though PP wasn't his best when Ghostzapper beat him. Saint Liam's Woodward vs Ghostzapper is better than anything CC has run, and he also won a BC Classic. If they weren't better, they are most certainly in the discussion.

To throw another horse in there from that timeframe...I'm not positive CC is better than Congaree either.

I think you need to clarify distances, I guess for discussions sake I am thinking 10 furlongs.

My memory of Pleasantly Perfect was he was a very nice 10 furlong horse who grinded his way to wins but was not overly fast.

Congaree at 8-9 furlongs was certainly a top top class horse.

I never thought Roses in May was very good historically.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I never thought Roses in May was very good historically.

Agreed. I was just trying to compare Arrogate and Ghostzapper through some of the horses they faced, and now I've probably gotten to the point where the line of tangency ain't touching the curve anymore.

[Merlinsky]

Steve Haskin's saying on FB that he read a column by the Timeform US clocker disputing the final time of the Pegasus as 1:46 4/5 which would equal the track record. He said he timed it himself at 1:46.89. The blame seems to be on the discrepancy between the run-up of the Poseidon and the Pegasus. A FB friend of his posted pictures of the two and they do look different.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Steve Haskin's saying on FB that he read a column by the Timeform US clocker disputing the final time of the Pegasus as 1:46 4/5 which would equal the track record. He said he timed it himself at 1:46.89. The blame seems to be on the discrepancy between the run-up of the Poseidon and the Pegasus. A FB friend of his posted pictures of the two and they do look different.

What was Shaman Ghost's BSF in the race?

[knickslions2]

So I timed it watching the race three times. While this is crude I got 1:46.95, 1:46.89 and 1:46.99

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Steve Haskin's saying on FB that he read a column by the Timeform US clocker disputing the final time of the Pegasus as 1:46 4/5 which would equal the track record. He said he timed it himself at 1:46.89. The blame seems to be on the discrepancy between the run-up of the Poseidon and the Pegasus. A FB friend of his posted pictures of the two and they do look different.

at this point i think all that do this stuff professionally agree that the final time is wrong, I have seen anywhere from 146.10 to 146.90

either way its off, considerably.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Just my opinion of course. Does CC's Classic last year beat Roses in May in '04? I have my doubts. Pleasantly Perfect beat MDO twice on the square, which is good enough for me, though PP wasn't his best when Ghostzapper beat him. Saint Liam's Woodward vs Ghostzapper is better than anything CC has run, and he also won a BC Classic. If they weren't better, they are most certainly in the discussion.

To throw another horse in there from that timeframe...I'm not positive CC is better than Congaree either.

If you're going to bring up Pleasantly Perfect as a horse that beat Medaglia d'Oro, I think we'd be remiss to not bring up Candy Ride. He destroyed MDO while setting a track record (sub 2:00) and earning the highest Beyer figure of 2003 (123). Prior to that race, he won a grade two on the grass while beating a multiple grade one winner in Special Ring. I think he merits a mention on this topic.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If you're going to bring up Pleasantly Perfect as a horse that beat Medaglia d'Oro, I think we'd be remiss to not bring up Candy Ride. He destroyed MDO while setting a track record (sub 2:00) and earning the highest Beyer figure of 2003 (123). Prior to that race, he won a grade two on the grass while beating a multiple grade one winner in Special Ring. I think he merits a mention on this topic.

Candy Ride was awesome. Too bad he wasn't able to run more races.

[RolloTomasi]

Formal Gold in 1997:
Aug 2 - 2nd by a nose in the Whitney, 9f in 1:48 1/5 - 126
Aug 23 - 1st by 5 lengths in the Iselin, 8.5f in 1:40 1/5 NTR - 124
Sep 20 - 1st by 5 lengths in the Woodward, 9f in 1:47 2/5 - 125

Suspect at 10f (4-0-0-1)

Best Pal in 1992:
Jan 18 - 1st by 3.5 lengths in the San Fernando, 9f in 1:48 1/5 - 121
Feb 9 - 1st by 1.25 lengths in the Strub, 10f in 1:59 4/5 - 119
Mar 7 - 1st by 5 lengths in the Big Cap, 10f in 1:59 - 123
Apr 11 - 1st by 1.5 lengths in the Oaklawn, 9f in 1:48 - 121

Suspect outside CA (though Oaklawn race and Derby placing say otherwise)

Easy Goer in 1989:
Jun10 - 1st by 8 lengths in Belmont Stakes, 12f in 2:26 - 122
Aug 5 - 1st by 4.5 lengths in Whitney, 9f in 1:47 2/5 - 119
Aug 19 - 1st by 3 lengths in Travers, 10f in 2:00 4/5 - 121
Sep 16 - 1st by 2 lengths in Woodward, 10f in 2:01 - 115 * track muddy
Oct 7 - 1st by 4 lengths in JC Gold Cup, 12f in 2:29 1/5 - 120
Nov 4 - 2nd by a neck in BC Classic, 10f in 2:00 1/5 - 124

Suspect in the mud (lowest BSF for every campaign registered on off tracks)

[10 pnt move up]

The early 4yo Best Pal before suffering a major injury was a different horse than post injury, he 3 races or so in early 1992 were crushing, and if memory is correct he beat a few nice horses.