Most Underrated of 2006

[Gander]

I think if anything Gorella was overrated. Her last win before the BC was totally unimpressive and her BC was an utter mess.

Premium Tap is probably the most underrated horse of the year. Remember when he beat Sun King in that allowance sprint race (when Sun King was 3/5) and everybody thought he was just a fluke?

[cmorioles]

I would consider Gorella overrated.

Invasor was underrated, but not anymore.

I can't believe DrugS didn't nominate the Sham as the most underrated race. Surely he gives it the lifetime achievement award.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I can't believe DrugS didn't nominate the Sham as the most underrated race. Surely he gives it the lifetime achievement award.

The Sham Stakes really ought to be renamed the DrugS Stakes. I would surely fly out to So. Cal and award the trophey each year.

[Gander]

Go easy on Bernardini. What exactly has he done wrong? He ran a very good
2nd to Invasor (a very good horse in his own right) in the BC Classic.
People act like he ran as bad as Lava Man. Who knows what would have happened if JJ had made that move 10-15 seconds later?

Discreet Cat has looked like a machine but lets face it, hasnt he had one cupcake trip after another against short, not so super fields? Silver Train and Badge of Silver are credible animals but no superstars.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Gander

Discreet Cat has looked like a machine but lets face it, hasnt he had one cupcake trip after another against short, not so super fields? Silver Train and Badge of Silver are credible animals but no superstars.

Discreet Cat has actually had four rather difficult trips in his six lifetime starts.

His debut win at Saratoga and the Jerome being the two races where you can say that he won with easy trips.

His trip was far from easy in the UAE Derby---his trip downright AWFUL in the 2nd start of his career, and in his Saratoga allowance win.

I wouldn't say he had a bad trip in the Cigar Mile...I would call it an unideal trip through. Having his hand forced early, getting caught in between horses briefly, while sparring for the lead through fast fractions. Badge of Silver had a dream stalk-no-go trip behind the pace that day...his trip was MUCH better than DC's.

Silver Train and Badge of Silver are both very talented older males when they are right. Not that I'm a weight guy or anything, but they both also were given a nice weight concession. I believe Discreet Cat became the first 3-year-old, since the 80's, to win a Grade 1 against older males, while GIVING the older males weight. Easy Goer's Whitney being the last such time that has happened I believe.

Steve Davidowitz, who is someone that belives weight is extrmely overrated, famously said in his popular book Betting Thoroughbreds that 'Any 3-year-old giving weight to older horses is an absolute bet against.' So, I think people are being way too critical of Discreet Cat for not looking a lot more impressive in the Cigar.

Over the years, many 3-year-olds have been humbled by older horses thought lesser. It was Onion and Prove Out for Secretariat in '73. He lost two of his three dirt races against older males.

[Gander]

his trip downright AWFUL in the 2nd start of his career, and in his Saratoga allowance win.

I dont recall him having a difficult trip at all this summer at Saratoga. Please explain how you consider that an awful trip. His maiden win last summer wasnt the best of trips but certainly not memorabl in terms of all that difficult to overcome. Did anybody come out of that race to amount to anything?

Silver Train is a Belmont specialist. Take him away from there and hes mediocre. Badge of Silver was making 2nd off a huge layoff, off a very nice effort in the BC on grass. Both horses ran creditable.

Look, I am not saying Discreet Cat isnt very, very good. He is. But lets be fair about bashing Bernardini, a horse who has done very little wrong this year. At least he took on the best of the best and put in a very good showing. Its not like he got killed.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Gander

his trip downright AWFUL in the 2nd start of his career, and in his Saratoga allowance win.

I dont recall him having a difficult trip at all this summer at Saratoga. Please explain how you consider that an awful trip. His maiden win last summer wasnt the best of trips but certainly not memorabl in terms of all that difficult to overcome. Did anybody come out of that race to amount to anything?

Silver Train is a Belmont specialist. Take him away from there and hes mediocre. Badge of Silver was making 2nd off a huge layoff, off a very nice effort in the BC on grass. Both horses ran creditable.

Look, I am not saying Discreet Cat isnt very, very good. He is. But lets be fair about bashing Bernardini, a horse who has done very little wrong this year. At least he took on the best of the best and put in a very good showing. Its not like he got killed.

I agree, Gander. I was more impressed with Bernardini in the BCC than the rest of his races... I'm just disappointed that we won't get to see him run next year.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Gander

his trip downright AWFUL in the 2nd start of his career, and in his Saratoga allowance win.

I dont recall him having a difficult trip at all this summer at Saratoga. Please explain how you consider that an awful trip.

Basically, for starters, he was stoutly rated back behind the early pace. The 2nd place horse in that race, who would win a Graded Stake race a few months later...was on the pace, through early fractions that were SLOWER than those set by a wire-to-wire MCL winner at the same distance, an hour earlier on in the day.

Basically, Discreet Cat had to rally 4-to-5 wide around the turn, from about 6th position, into the teeth of comically slow early fractions, after having been rated stoutly behind the pace in his first start off a good sized layoff.

That, my friend, is a very tough trip...and that should be very clear to even the most trip challenged of people.

Discreet Cat won that race as stylish and easy as possible, his final time was the fastest at the distace all meet long at Saratoga, and was the fastest at the distance in like 3 years...he exploded through the stretch, and all the while his jockey was looking all over for competiton. It was an insane effort.

Obviously a better individual performance than his romp in Dubai over Simpatico Bribon and Invasor....or his Cigar Mile win where he equaled Easy Goer's track record, and wasn't far off the Dr. Fager's world record.

[Gander]

Yes that had something to do with it

Hey, give a brotha a break. Yo yo yo, word.

If only Southern Africa could have won that race at Delmar going off 10 minutes later, the race we couldnt see because NYRA was in too big of a rush to get back downstate. That was the race Sinister Minister was a beaten favorite (his comeback).

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

Yes that had something to do with it

Hey, give a brotha a break. Yo yo yo, word.

If only Southern Africa could have won that race at Delmar going off 10 minutes later, the race we couldnt see because NYRA was in too big of a rush to get back downstate. That was the race Sinister Minister was a beaten favorite (his comeback).

and then you insisted we go to that dump Saratoga harness place to play Mountianeer

[Gander]

You still owe me $700 from that night. Now that you are working a 2nd job I expect payment in full by post time of the Malibu.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by Gander

Go easy on Bernardini. What exactly has he done wrong? He ran a very good
2nd to Invasor (a very good horse in his own right) in the BC Classic.
People act like he ran as bad as Lava Man. Who knows what would have happened if JJ had made that move 10-15 seconds later?

Discreet Cat has looked like a machine but lets face it, hasnt he had one cupcake trip after another against short, not so super fields? Silver Train and Badge of Silver are credible animals but no superstars.

I know it. He ran a solid second for Christ sakes ( sorry) . When he made that monster of a move on the final turn to take the lead, I am willing to bet there wasn't a person in America watching that thought, Yup race over, done deal.
Was he the second coming of Secretariet, NO, is he a paper champion NO. The only major race he bypassed was the Belmont He ran in all the other major races for Three yr olds and destroyed what was thrown at him. Every great horse horse has a few losses next to his/her name. So he didn't win one race this year. A race he came in second to a much overlooked horse that has quite the resume himself.
The true sad part about this is we will never know how great Bernie could have been.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The Sham Stakes really ought to be renamed the DrugS Stakes. I would surely fly out to So. Cal and award the trophey each year.

That could all be arranged.....would you like an extended stay?