NYRA Late P5; Belmont debut Saturday (9/24)

[Alabama Stakes]

Why not ? What's the diff ? Isn't the pick 4 part of the pick 5 in Cali ?

[saratogadew]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Why not ? What's the diff ? Isn't the pick 4 part of the pick 5 in Cali ?

No

[Alabama Stakes]

When they run 8 , how do they do it ?

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

When they run 8 , how do they do it ?

They overlap it with the 5th race in both.

NYRA runs the pk5 and pk4 in the early races. I haven't looked at the numbers but haven't heard any complaints that it ruins the early pk4.

I still think they could do it on 9 race card once but I would prefer it late and I think they would increase overall handle if they did it that way.

[saratogadew]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

When they run 8 , how do they do it ?

I stand corrected Alabama

This is a very interesting topic. I don't believe it matters much when the overlap occurs with a last leg/first leg. I am going to check out average pool sizes for the last pick 3 of the day. You would think that if a longshot comes in on the first leg of the late P4, it should drive the late P3 pool up. I would also think the same at GP and KEE that if a longshot comes in 1st leg of P5, it would drive up the P4 pool. Vice versa, if an 8/5 comes in 1st leg of P4, will that tamp down the late P3 pool? Same with an 8/5 in a P5, will that affect the P4 pool? If I was carding races at a late P5 and P4 track, I would card the most difficult handicapping race 1st leg of P5. At only a late P4 track, same thing with the 1st leg. Wouldn't that drive up handle for those late wagers when 75% are out in leg one?

[jms62]

Any word on whether or not this is under cosideration for Belmont?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by jms62

Any word on whether or not this is under cosideration for Belmont?

As Grening reported, definitely being looked at and feels like a certainty. But there's no timetable for implementation.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Isn't the pick 4 part of the pick 5 in Cali ?

Yes,(starting with race 2)with the exception of DMR..........and DMR is costing themselves handle by not adding an early P-4 to the wagering menu.

[taxicab]

Tracks go with .50 Min's on P-3/4's because that's what the public wants.......as a result of the lower min's the handle on the Multi's goes up......so that's good for the track also.
It's a tax break for the player also if the payoff stays under $600 via a .50 score{no IRS window visit}.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Tracks go with .50 Min's on P-3/4's because that's what the public wants.......as a result of the lower min's the handle on the Multi's goes up......so that's good for the track also.
It's a tax break for the player also if the payoff stays under $600 via a .50 score{no IRS window visit}.

http://www.jockeyclub.com/default.asp?section=FB&area=8

[Pants II]

Originally Posted by jms62

http://www.jockeyclub.com/default.asp?section=FB&area=8

Those are bailout numbers. Staggering when put into detail.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by jms62

http://www.jockeyclub.com/default.asp?section=FB&area=8

Are the opinions in your post and the one before it mutually exclusive? Handle on multi-race bets is increasing, especially the Pick 4 and Pick 5, even in the midst of a handle decline. Of course, those bets were not offered en masse in the late 90s and early 00s when handle surged.

Personally, until I see real data, I can't get a handle on what lower minimums have done to payouts. I do know that it allows sophisticated bettors additional opportunities at more coverage, and does invite people who otherwise would not to get into the pools. The tax ramifications are also positive, so there's plenty to like.

If you isolate Derby weekend, the super goes to a $1 minimum, and I find it almost unplayable at that price point. That's just a personal opinion, which I think most of these are until someone produces actual research.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Are the opinions in your post and the one before it mutually exclusive? Handle on multi-race bets is increasing, especially the Pick 4 and Pick 5, even in the midst of a handle decline. Of course, those bets were not offered en masse in the late 90s and early 00s when handle surged.

Personally, until I see real data, I can't get a handle on what lower minimums have done to payouts. I do know that it allows sophisticated bettors additional opportunities at more coverage, and does invite people who otherwise would not to get into the pools. The tax ramifications are also positive, so there's plenty to like.

If you isolate Derby weekend, the super goes to a $1 minimum, and I find it almost unplayable at that price point. That's just a personal opinion, which I think most of these are until someone produced actual research.

You are right it is my personal opinion but that opinion is based upon what I am seeing here on the Picks thread. I don't see anyone that is profitable playing strictly P4's. I see people betting the same amount of money they played at $1 price point and hitting at a much higher percentage but the payouts seem way lower. I'd love to see some research myself but I don't think it will happen. When did Saratoga institute .50 P4's? I'll do some informal.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by jms62

You are right it is my personal opinion but that opinion is based upon what I am seeing here on the Picks thread. I don't see anyone that is profitable playing strictly P4's. I see people betting the same amount of money they played at $1 price point and hitting at a much higher percentage but the payouts seem way lower. I'd love to see some research myself but I don't think it will happen. When did Saratoga institute .50 P4's? I'll do some informal.

While I think 80% of the bets on the picks thread anymore are not real amounts being wagered the real bettors are getting more coverage using a $.50 bet thus more winning tickets. I personally only play pick 4s once in a while when I think there is value using a $.50 bet. I try to keep ticket $50 or under. Seeing $500 tickets to me is crazy on a pick 4. I'm still of the belief the doubles give you the most bang for your buck.