Aqu 1st

[ELA]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Eric, my post was to point out that freak outs by some guys get accusations, and by others none.
I think there is way too much paranoia and emphasis on Juice around here, and get called naive for it.
Freak outs happen.

I think, in this case, your "motivation" was missed by most. Now, the issue is something completely different -- gee, what a surprise, LOL. Anyway, being that a BB is a dead medium, it's pretty common to have things "missed" or so to speak.

Eric

Originally Posted by ELA

I think, in this case, your "motivation" was missed by most. Now, the issue is something completely different -- gee, what a surprise, LOL. Anyway, being that a BB is a dead medium, it's pretty common to have things "missed" or so to speak.

Eric

And noone has adressed it yet either.
I posted that and meant to expound up on it but had to run out and do some errands and by the time I got back SOMEONE had twisted it into something else.
My intent was to spark debate about perceptions and reality.
I've also started this kind of a thread when I spoke about how people overintrepret trouble trips on short priced horses, and disprespect troubel trips on bombs.
Its perception that I'm speaking about.
In this case, what i'm saying is that you see horses jump up and freak out or reverse form all the time, but only certain guys get yelled about.
I think juice paranoia is out of hand, and while certainly not saying its nota big problem in the game now(it is) I think its been exaggerated to greater proportions than it is.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by oracle80

And noone has adressed it yet either.
I posted that and meant to expound up on it but had to run out and do some errands and by the time I got back SOMEONE had twisted it into something else.
My intent was to spark debate about perceptions and reality.
I've also started this kind of a thread when I spoke about how people overintrepret trouble trips on short priced horses, and disprespect troubel trips on bombs.
Its perception that I'm speaking about.
In this case, what i'm saying is that you see horses jump up and freak out or reverse form all the time, but only certain guys get yelled about.
I think juice paranoia is out of hand, and while certainly not saying its nota big problem in the game now(it is) I think its been exaggerated to greater proportions than it is.

I understand your point, but to be honest, I think there was a bit of a bias there; and I am sure that I am not the only one who read it that way. Whatever your motive is or was, and regardless of whatever you were trying to infer, people read what they read and sometimes the "author" or origin plays into how they read it. The only difference is that I take it with a grain of salt and I don't care either way (no offense and in no way am I trivializing anything you've said).

Obviously you would stick up for your friends or clients, as would others. Nothing uncommon there. However, in this case I think you were off base. I could be wrong but I don't think Bruce Levine would be the same target as some of the "usual" and common targets. Levine shoots very well, is consistantly a high % trainer, has been on the backstretch for more than a quarter century, passed the 1000th win milestone in the past year, and I could be wrong on this but I don't think he has ever had a positive test.

I see your point, but I think it was misdirected and off target.

Eric

Originally Posted by ELA

I understand your point, but to be honest, I think there was a bit of a bias there; and I am sure that I am not the only one who read it that way. Whatever your motive is or was, and regardless of whatever you were trying to infer, people read what they read and sometimes the "author" or origin plays into how they read it. The only difference is that I take it with a grain of salt and I don't care either way (no offense and in no way am I trivializing anything you've said).

Obviously you would stick up for your friends or clients, as would others. Nothing uncommon there. However, in this case I think you were off base. I could be wrong but I don't think Bruce Levine would be the same target as some of the "usual" and common targets. Levine shoots very well, is consistantly a high % trainer, has been on the backstretch for more than a quarter century, passed the 1000th win milestone in the past year, and I could be wrong on this but I don't think he has ever had a positive test.

I see your point, but I think it was misdirected and off target.

Eric

Eric,
You still don't get my point. I wasn't accusing Levine of anything. But it was a freak out race, granted one that had explanations, but a freak out race nonetheless. If Pletcher or Dutrow had one who jumped up like that, certain folks would still be howling over it.
I remember "one guy" who bitched about a horse of Dutrows this time last year on another board( ) who carried on for hours, it was a claimer who jumped up and ran a race like this who eventually got claimed away and won for the next trainer, and man was this guy livid about it.
Cheap horse freaked, today a cheap horse freaked and umm well, the guy didn't bitch, he made a perfectly rational explanation which I agred with. But the perception that these bitchers aren't biased(when they themselves accuse others of being biased) is a complete and total joke.

Eric the horses name that caused the hissy fit was Crafty Player, I just remembered it. very similiar to today, same time of year, same kind of quirky track, etc. Even was the first or 2nd race on a Sunday, very very similiar.
Yet today, no bitching. Guess everyone is biased to some extent on everything huh?

[ELA]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Eric the horses name that caused the hissy fit was Crafty Player, I just remembered it. very similiar to today, same time of year, same kind of quirky track, etc. Even was the first or 2nd race on a Sunday, very very similiar.
Yet today, no bitching. Guess everyone is biased to some extent on everything huh?

Listen, I have no dog in this fight. Just to be clear, so there is nothing behind the curtain, I know Bruce Levine and have had horses in his barn for several years. That's it. We are not best friends, we don't vacation together with the wives or anything like that. Anyway, being that you weren't accusing him of anything, I am not defending him. But, in going on you reasoning, if this was a topic of conversation here -- do you really believe that droves of posters would make Bruce Levine out to be public enemy #1, or would he be the target of critisicm from the bettor, owner, competition, etc.? Should a guy like Bruce Levine be as big a target as some others? I know you don't believe that.

Anyway, I very clearly get that you weren't accusing Bruce Levine of anything. I get it. I really do. However, I think even your point was off base. Be that as it may, if other trainers -- one or several -- who are friends or clients of yours, are commonly a target or are "jumped on" all the time, etc. -- are you kidding me? The bias is virtually inherent. I think we all know that -- author, reader, whoever. I think that's part of the dynamic of a BB.

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Eric,
You still don't get my point. I wasn't accusing Levine of anything. But it was a freak out race, granted one that had explanations, but a freak out race nonetheless. If Pletcher or Dutrow had one who jumped up like that, certain folks would still be howling over it.
I remember "one guy" who bitched about a horse of Dutrows this time last year on another board( ) who carried on for hours, it was a claimer who jumped up and ran a race like this who eventually got claimed away and won for the next trainer, and man was this guy livid about it.
Cheap horse freaked, today a cheap horse freaked and umm well, the guy didn't bitch, he made a perfectly rational explanation which I agred with. But the perception that these bitchers aren't biased(when they themselves accuse others of being biased) is a complete and total joke.

I do very much get your point. I don't have a problem with your point. Again, no offense whatsoever, I think your point was rather pointless, but that's just my opinion. The fact that you weren't accusing Bruce Levine of anything doesn't mean it didn't -- initially -- come across that way (before you gave your explanation and additional commentary).

I understand what you are saying and I think what contributed to me, and perhaps others, not getting your point is how you react when the commentary is about Dutrow, or one of your friends, clients, etc. -- that's all. You reference the that the bitchers are "biased" and I am sure you won't get an arguement on that (at least not from me). However, your own comments come with their own bias -- and in this case that may have been a contributory factor. Nothing wrong with that, it is what it is.

Eric