Aqu 1st

[ELA]

I think to jump to conclusions based upon one aspect -- in this case "form reversal" and "miracles" -- is a bit myopic. I think Andy brings up the major contributory factor in the track condition.

Now, aside from the # itself -- was this horse not competitive? Sure, not ML favorite or anything of the like. Maybe it's because I know Bruce and Roddy, but you don't have to know them to know that they race horses where they can win -- Period! Another West Coast import, after a couple of starts, etc. I could have seen Bruce going either way after the last race. It would have been aggressive to drop after the last one, but I've seen him do it. Touger with a NY bred.

Eric

[blackthroatedwind]

To be fair, Eric, without saying it was a bias aided win, it was a pretty tough performance to defend.....especially in relation to the horse's pps.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

To be fair, Eric, without saying it was a bias aided win, it was a pretty tough performance to defend.....especially in relation to the horse's pps.

Without question -- the performance, absolutely, which is why I commented you made the point. Aside from the eventual # being bias influenced, and aside from the performance -- I thought the horse, with a bit of a step forward, figured a bit. I did not think the entire field laid over the horse.

Eric

Originally Posted by ELA

Without question -- the performance, absolutely, which is why I commented you made the point. Aside from the eventual # being bias influenced, and aside from the performance -- I thought the horse, with a bit of a step forward, figured a bit. I did not think the entire field laid over the horse.

Eric

Eric, my post was to point out that freak outs by some guys get accusations, and by others none.
I think there is way too much paranoia and emphasis on Juice around here, and get called naive for it.
Freak outs happen.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Eric, my post was to point out that freak outs by some guys get accusations, and by others none.
I think there is way too much paranoia and emphasis on Juice around here, and get called naive for it.
Freak outs happen.

I think, in this case, your "motivation" was missed by most. Now, the issue is something completely different -- gee, what a surprise, LOL. Anyway, being that a BB is a dead medium, it's pretty common to have things "missed" or so to speak.

Eric

Originally Posted by ELA

I think, in this case, your "motivation" was missed by most. Now, the issue is something completely different -- gee, what a surprise, LOL. Anyway, being that a BB is a dead medium, it's pretty common to have things "missed" or so to speak.

Eric

And noone has adressed it yet either.
I posted that and meant to expound up on it but had to run out and do some errands and by the time I got back SOMEONE had twisted it into something else.
My intent was to spark debate about perceptions and reality.
I've also started this kind of a thread when I spoke about how people overintrepret trouble trips on short priced horses, and disprespect troubel trips on bombs.
Its perception that I'm speaking about.
In this case, what i'm saying is that you see horses jump up and freak out or reverse form all the time, but only certain guys get yelled about.
I think juice paranoia is out of hand, and while certainly not saying its nota big problem in the game now(it is) I think its been exaggerated to greater proportions than it is.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by oracle80

And noone has adressed it yet either.
I posted that and meant to expound up on it but had to run out and do some errands and by the time I got back SOMEONE had twisted it into something else.
My intent was to spark debate about perceptions and reality.
I've also started this kind of a thread when I spoke about how people overintrepret trouble trips on short priced horses, and disprespect troubel trips on bombs.
Its perception that I'm speaking about.
In this case, what i'm saying is that you see horses jump up and freak out or reverse form all the time, but only certain guys get yelled about.
I think juice paranoia is out of hand, and while certainly not saying its nota big problem in the game now(it is) I think its been exaggerated to greater proportions than it is.

I understand your point, but to be honest, I think there was a bit of a bias there; and I am sure that I am not the only one who read it that way. Whatever your motive is or was, and regardless of whatever you were trying to infer, people read what they read and sometimes the "author" or origin plays into how they read it. The only difference is that I take it with a grain of salt and I don't care either way (no offense and in no way am I trivializing anything you've said).

Obviously you would stick up for your friends or clients, as would others. Nothing uncommon there. However, in this case I think you were off base. I could be wrong but I don't think Bruce Levine would be the same target as some of the "usual" and common targets. Levine shoots very well, is consistantly a high % trainer, has been on the backstretch for more than a quarter century, passed the 1000th win milestone in the past year, and I could be wrong on this but I don't think he has ever had a positive test.

I see your point, but I think it was misdirected and off target.

Eric