Update on Calder spill Monday

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Samm

I didn't see... I heard Bobby Neuman say it... point is.. only the guy on the horse really knows but I'll go watch the replay... I did see the race but didn't catch it...

I don't know who Bobby Neuman is but if he thinks that horse clipped heels I hope he doesn't operate heavy machinery.

Sorry BTW.... I ***** up! I was watching the 10th race that day in which JB did clip heels... I just watched the replay... I don't know if JB's hitting did it.. I can't tell how hard he was hitting but I do know I have never seen a welt on our horses... JB in my opinion is not a whip "offender". was he over zealous.. I don't know.... I don't think he was but thats my oppinion. Bill White is not the type to send out a sore horse and the jock sure wasn't riding him like he had something to fear...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Samm

Sorry BTW.... I ***** up! I was watching the 10th race that day in which JB did clip heels... I just watched the replay... I don't know if JB's hitting did it.. I can't tell how hard he was hitting but I do know I have never seen a welt on our horses... JB in my opinion is not a whip "offender". was he over zealous.. I don't know.... I don't think he was but thats my oppinion. Bill White is not the type to send out a sore horse and the jock sure wasn't riding him like he had something to fear...

I think the initial point that caused the argument is probably correct in many ways. An experienced journeyman rider MAY have recognized there was a problem ( the horse was drifting BADLY ) and probably would not only have not been whipping as aggressively but also might have pulled the horse up. It's obviously easy for us to say this stuff but there are plusses and minuses to anything and an apprentice is pretty much simply not going to have the experience of a journeyman rider.

[The Bid]

Neuman is the track caller at Calder.

Bridge broke the horse off from the pony prerace A) Trainer instructed him to warm her up, or B) she was sore.

He rode the horse like you want a jock to ride an even money

The horse was being bottomed out after showing talent at a higher level, she had some issues that the trainer was familiar with.

The horse was closer to clipping the grandstand than she was clipping heels.

All that said the kid didnt do anything wrong except ride his mount to the fullest. Glad he is alright. Maybe when he loses the bug and is more established he gate scratches that filly but once those gates are popped he did his job

[Fanofthejuiceguys]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Neuman is the track caller at Calder.

Bridge broke the horse off from the pony prerace A) Trainer instructed him to warm her up, or B) she was sore.

He rode the horse like you want a jock to ride an even money

The horse was being bottomed out after showing talent at a higher level, she had some issues that the trainer was familiar with.

The horse was closer to clipping the grandstand than she was clipping heels.

All that said the kid didnt do anything wrong except ride his mount to the fullest. Glad he is alright. Maybe when he loses the bug and is more established he gate scratches that filly but once those gates are popped he did his job

Why are you still so obsessed with the rider gate scratching the horse? Why can't you accept the possibility that something happened to the horse DURING THE RACE. That would mean after the post parade, warmup, and going into and breaking from the gate, in sequence. You don't seem to understand that. You can defend the kid all you want. His poor judgement directly led to that accident.

That is so wrong... it was not his fault! If this kid pulled the horse up in mid stretch and the horse walked off.. you all would be screaming and you know it!!!

[Fanofthejuiceguys]

Originally Posted by Samm

That is so wrong... it was not his fault! If this kid pulled the horse up in mid stretch and the horse walked off.. you all would be screaming and you know it!!!

You are living in a fantasy world. You haven't even watched the replay yet you choose to espouse expertise. No one wishes ill on the kid, nor his anyone condemming him as a person. He did however make a major error in professional judgement. Some may view this as a rookie mistake, I view it as an irresponsible lapse in judgement. His overzealousness took two other riders down with him and led to the death of his mount. How is pointing that obvious fact out wrong in your eyes. For someone who supposedly has a background working with racehorses and around the racetrack you are curiously in denial of the irrefutable facts.

Originally Posted by Fanofthejuiceguys

You are living in a fantasy world. You haven't even watched the replay yet you choose to espouse expertise. No one wishes ill on the kid, nor his anyone condemming him as a person. He did however make a major error in professional judgement. Some may view this as a rookie mistake, I view it as an irresponsible lapse in judgement. His overzealousness took two other riders down with him and led to the death of his mount. How is pointing that obvious fact out wrong in your eyes. For someone who supposedly has a background working with racehorses and around the racetrack you are curiously in denial of the irrefutable facts.

Irrefutable in YOUR eyes. Do you have the vet records on this horse? Talk to White? Talk to Bridgmohan? If you have then its irrefutable. If you have not then its just a theory.

Originally Posted by Fanofthejuiceguys

You are living in a fantasy world. You haven't even watched the replay yet you choose to espouse expertise. No one wishes ill on the kid, nor his anyone condemming him as a person. He did however make a major error in professional judgement. Some may view this as a rookie mistake, I view it as an irresponsible lapse in judgement. His overzealousness took two other riders down with him and led to the death of his mount. How is pointing that obvious fact out wrong in your eyes. For someone who supposedly has a background working with racehorses and around the racetrack you are curiously in denial of the irrefutable facts.

No.. I live in the real world where dispite our best efforts... **** HAPPENS! Have you ever had a horse break down on you?? I have... both with issues and without!! This was not the kids fault.... and to lay the fact that the horse broke both front legs on him is just not right.

[The Bid]

I just dont agree with you. When a horse is broke off like she was in the postparade something isnt right. I dont think it happened in the race, I think her last race was a sign she wasnt going right, if not that the cut to the bottom had to give a little heads up? I think if anyone is responsible its the trainer sending the horse to post. Bridge gave the horse the ride youd expect a jockey to give an even money.

Im not obsessed, I just know Im right.

[blackthroatedwind]

And I'll also add that I think it's important to recognize the responsibility all riders have to each other. This incident could have been a LOT worse, and I believe two other horses and riders went down, and I have felt for quite some time that racetracks in general are too lenient in allowing apprentices to ride. I have seen some wildly irresponsible riders on the NYRA curcuit during winter meets over the years. I am shocked that the journeymen riders haven't made a stink about some of these riders in the past. A dangerous rider is like a drunk driver....he is a menace to far more than him or herself.

I am NOT saying this is the case here, one way or another, and I haven't seen this kid ride. But, while many accidents on the racetrack are unavoidable, some aren't. Was this one that was avoidable? I have no idea, and there seem to be differing opinions here, but I don't think it's wildly unfair to suggest that at least perhaps a very experienced rider may have changed the outcome.

[The Bid]

I think they should all be ridden to the fullest anytime the gate opens. He was giving the public the ride they deserved.

My arguement is its not the kids fault the horse brokedown

[uscrules]

Oracle,good to see that Touchdown Kid win a few weeks back.I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE HE PAID $50,but I haven't been keeping track of him.Hopefully he does some more good things.

love the name! what circuit does he race on? never heard this one. does oracle own or owned him?

Originally Posted by uscrules

Oracle,good to see that Touchdown Kid win a few weeks back.I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE HE PAID $50,but I haven't been keeping track of him.Hopefully he does some more good things.

love the name! what circuit does he race on? never heard this one. does oracle own or owned him?

Just a horse we loved last year.
Went off form but came back and ran a big one the day after the Breeders Cup and paid 50 bucks to win.
Ny-bred that started with Paula Capestro out in California.

[uscrules]

just reading kasepts ny selections for today and saw touchdown kid in the 8th race. is this the same horse you write about? did you bet him the day he paid 50 dollars to win?

Originally Posted by uscrules

just reading kasepts ny selections for today and saw touchdown kid in the 8th race. is this the same horse you write about? did you bet him the day he paid 50 dollars to win?

I used him in gimmicks but keyed a horse with him whobattled for the lead and then stopped. I was pretty mad at myself for how I played the race and fully deserved to lose. I used a horse of dutrow's named Cobra (King?) with him in gimmicks.
I had stopped at Buffalo Raceway on the drive home from the BC to catch the last few at Ny and CD. It took Cannon Shell to bail me out with Sabellina. Thing that was funny about that was that she won a photo I was sure she had lost. I wasted a pretty good tantrum complete with cursing and swearing about getting beat the last jump and why oh why did didn't I just keep driving instead of stopping to play the last few races. They put up her number and I actually had to pick my tickets up off the ground because I had thrown them there. I dunno how in the world she won that race, you could watch the replay 10 times and swear she got beat.

Originally Posted by merasmag

sam doesn't like jocks who don't speak english (or jesse jackson ) and btw is telling us about ANOTHER 5 dimes he lost...poor little horsie...why should an even money horse be pushed harder than an 85-1 mr. bid?

Hahahahaha! Quick story... In the paddock I gave a jock instructions.. he nodded the whole time as if in agreement. After the race I asked him how the horse felt underneath him. He looked at me totaly confused.. the valet went and translated! He never understood me in the first place!!! It's not that I dislike non english speaking jocks .... I just think more of jocks who take the time to learn so they do understand what they are asked to do. This is the US.... Jesse Jackson... NO COMENT!!