The Graveyard of Champions Claims Another

[saratogadew]

Originally Posted by DonGuido

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...set-on-pharoah
I think Mr. Zayatt is knee jerking like when your all star baseball son has a chance to win the College World Series and he strikes out on split finger that he knows he can't hit . . . slow down and take a slow look at the situation.

1. AP is still the best 3YO in the world
2. He had a bad race at a place where many greats have had one
3. You have 2 months to get him ready
4. You only got beat because your horse was not your horse for one day by a horse who had only one maiden win in his career and showed little up to now . . . a FLUKE, perhaps, likely?!
5. He can easily come back and beat all who show in Classic but you won't know unless you try.
6. Stop lamenting and get it together, get with Bob and make a plan . . . then tell us what's going to happen.

Thank you and did I mention he's the best 3YO and one of the best horses overall in the world.

1. Agree
2. I would not call it a bad race.
3. True
4. Keen Ice has shown more than just "a little" up to now. This is a very good horse.
5. totally agree
6. Agree

[Big Peps]

Espinoza needs to really shut up as well. Lezcano rode frosted to win, rode aggressively, if he was a leaning a bit, well to me that is good race riding and really doesn't need to be spewed about immediately post race. With all the success he has had the past two years, he really sounded foolish post race. Embarrassing really

In addition, lay off the whip a bit Victor, he really goes overboard with that on many occasions

[LARHAGE]

I don't get the violins about his loss, this horse has had a very busy year crammed into 6 months, he has travelled extensively and beaten these same horses up multiple times by double digits, I think the horse is a game son of a gun and loves to run hence his eagerness to train, but sometimes horses don't let you know how empty their tank is until you actually need them to use it, Pharoah was simply empty at the top of the stretch after battling with Frosted and put that one away on sheer heart, he simply couldn't hold off the perfect trip Keen Ice in the last few jumps, I was just as impressed with his ability to dig in and fight as he could have been off the board and dusted, but he wasn't, that horse has logged a lot of miles and it just got him that last furlong, no shame in his race, he still towers over these colts as this was the only way they could finally beat him.

[JimmyEllis]

Better ride gets it done. The problem is that Espinosa can't conceptualize that ride. So he got the horse beat and conviently blamed in on conditioning; along with all the other experts. Maybe AP wasn't at the top of his game but he ran well enough to win the race. Shame

[horseofcourse]

I can't see where it was a bad race by Pharoah. they absolutely flew the second half mile. 46.7 second half mile in a 10 or 12 furlong race is rough. Normal trend is to go much quicker first half then jog the second half. Reminded me of the 2004 Belmont Stakes....exact same race. Exact same brutal second half mile. Exact same result. Keen Ice had enough to barely pick up the pieces.

[FATPIANO]

AP A Pig

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by JimmyEllis

Better ride gets it done. The problem is that Espinosa can conceptualize that ride. So he got the horse beat and conviently blamed in on conditioning; along with all the other experts. Maybe AP wasn't at the top of his game but he ran well enough to win the race. Shame

I would kind of agree with this. I thought Victor panicked when Frosted headed him and urged AP too early, something that he has never done before or had to do before. So what if Frosted goes a length in front at that point in the race. Knowing AP did not have the same energy he's shown before, I would say Victor has to take some of the blame for his performance.

I predict after all the dust settles and the connections assess this the way the should without emotion, we'll see him race one more time and hopefully with rest and preparation he will bring his A game with him. If so, he'll go into retirement with a win and his legacy soundly in tact.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by JimmyEllis

Better ride gets it done. The problem is that Espinosa can conceptualize that ride. So he got the horse beat and conviently blamed in on conditioning; along with all the other experts. Maybe AP wasn't at the top of his game but he ran well enough to win the race. Shame

It would be interesting to know what exactly was Lezcano's game plan with Frosted. Was he simply targeting American Pharoah or was he trying to make the lead (perhaps thinking AP would sit just off the frontrunner ala the AK Derby, KY Derby, and Haskell)?

From a running style standpoint, Frosted is fairly versatile. He showed solid early speed in Florida and in his maiden breaker at 2. In the Wood, he seemed rejuvenated with an off-the-pace style (although I believe he also had corrective throat surgery at the same time). In the Derby, he came from well out of it and closed stoutly, yet ultimately made no impression on the top two home. In the Belmont, he stalked and let American Pharoah dictate the running, then made a strong move at him (while having to steady slightly on the far turn) in the stretch, but could not get even within a length of him. So unless his connections were resigned to running for second money, sending him to the lead made a lot of sense. It was the only tool they had yet to use to reverse form on AP.

Of course, it still didn't work. But what it did do was force Espinoza to ride the race as if it were 9f and not 10f. As Baffert himself said, AP won the Kentucky Derby "on guts" and "got away with it". Many people suggested, despite winning the Derby, that AP had come back down to earth. The rest of the Triple Crown, which was practically scripted for AP's ascension (a torrential downpour minutes before the Preakness, a paceless Belmont) brushed away all those nagging concerns about AP and distance limitations. The facile manner of the subsequent Haskell further solidified the mantle of invincibility bestowed on this horse. But in the end, like many a brilliant racehorse, AP will always be vulnerable at the classic distances, especially when there is an honest pace scenario.

[asudevil]

Perfectly stated.

[Travis Stone]

When did it become the Graveyard of Champions? It was always "Graveyard of Favorites."

[ADJMK]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It would be interesting to know what exactly was Lezcano's game plan with Frosted. Was he simply targeting American Pharoah or was he trying to make the lead (perhaps thinking AP would sit just off the frontrunner ala the AK Derby, KY Derby, and Haskell)?

From a running style standpoint, Frosted is fairly versatile. He showed solid early speed in Florida and in his maiden breaker at 2. In the Wood, he seemed rejuvenated with an off-the-pace style (although I believe he also had corrective throat surgery at the same time). In the Derby, he came from well out of it and closed stoutly, yet ultimately made no impression on the top two home. In the Belmont, he stalked and let American Pharoah dictate the running, then made a strong move at him (while having to steady slightly on the far turn) in the stretch, but could not get even within a length of him. So unless his connections were resigned to running for second money, sending him to the lead made a lot of sense. It was the only tool they had yet to use to reverse form on AP.

Of course, it still didn't work. But what it did do was force Espinoza to ride the race as if it were 9f and not 10f. As Baffert himself said, AP won the Kentucky Derby "on guts" and "got away with it". Many people suggested, despite winning the Derby, that AP had come back down to earth. The rest of the Triple Crown, which was practically scripted for AP's ascension (a torrential downpour minutes before the Preakness, a paceless Belmont) brushed away all those nagging concerns about AP and distance limitations. The facile manner of the subsequent Haskell further solidified the mantle of invincibility bestowed on this horse. But in the end, like many a brilliant racehorse, AP will always be vulnerable at the classic distances, especially when there is an honest pace scenario.

Finally got to watch the race and you summed it up perfectly.

[GenuineRisk]

NYTimes article- Baffert's preference is to train up to Breeders' Cup. Joe Drape's writing can make me crazy sometimes, but this is a nice piece.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/31/sp...tion.html?_r=0

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

... So unless his connections were resigned to running for second money, sending [Frosted] to the lead made a lot of sense. It was the only tool they had yet to use to reverse form on AP.

According to Bloodhorse, it was not Kiaran McLaughlin's intention at all: "Frosted's trainer Kiaran McLaughlin said he didn't expect for his colt to press American Pharoah."

see http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...m-team-pharoah

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

According to Bloodhorse, it was not Kiaran McLaughlin's intention at all: "Frosted's trainer Kiaran McLaughlin said he didn't expect for his colt to press American Pharoah."

see http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...m-team-pharoah

Yeah, I read that as well. I should have said it was Lezcano's call, not "the connections". Actually, in retrospect, given the lack of early speed on paper, Frosted was just as likely as any to be sitting second regardless of McLaughlin's expectations.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It would be interesting to know what exactly was Lezcano's game plan with Frosted. Was he simply targeting American Pharoah or was he trying to make the lead (perhaps thinking AP would sit just off the frontrunner ala the AK Derby, KY Derby, and Haskell)?

From a running style standpoint, Frosted is fairly versatile. He showed solid early speed in Florida and in his maiden breaker at 2. In the Wood, he seemed rejuvenated with an off-the-pace style (although I believe he also had corrective throat surgery at the same time). In the Derby, he came from well out of it and closed stoutly, yet ultimately made no impression on the top two home. In the Belmont, he stalked and let American Pharoah dictate the running, then made a strong move at him (while having to steady slightly on the far turn) in the stretch, but could not get even within a length of him. So unless his connections were resigned to running for second money, sending him to the lead made a lot of sense. It was the only tool they had yet to use to reverse form on AP.

Of course, it still didn't work. But what it did do was force Espinoza to ride the race as if it were 9f and not 10f. As Baffert himself said, AP won the Kentucky Derby "on guts" and "got away with it". Many people suggested, despite winning the Derby, that AP had come back down to earth. The rest of the Triple Crown, which was practically scripted for AP's ascension (a torrential downpour minutes before the Preakness, a paceless Belmont) brushed away all those nagging concerns about AP and distance limitations. The facile manner of the subsequent Haskell further solidified the mantle of invincibility bestowed on this horse. But in the end, like many a brilliant racehorse, AP will always be vulnerable at the classic distances, especially when there is an honest pace scenario.

I think Lezcano clearly rode to win the race. I saw nothing wrong with his ride.