American Pharoah...

[blackthroatedwind]

So American Pharoah, who we were told has three or four gears, and can run as fast as need be to win ( essentially ) any race, needed 32 stings of the whip to run ( effectively ) the same race he ran in Arkansas?

American Pharoah got a dream trip to win the Derby by three quarters of a length over a horse that didn't change leads in the stretch. The pre-race BS about this horse was completely exposed.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So American Pharoah, who we were told has three or four gears, and can run as fast as need be to win ( essentially ) any race, needed 32 stings of the whip to run ( effectively ) the same race he ran in Arkansas?

American Pharoah got a dream trip to win the Derby by three quarters of a length over a horse that didn't change leads in the stretch. The pre-race BS about this horse was completely exposed.

Will this horse get Orb like hype in the next two weeks?

They seem similar to me in ways.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Will this horse get Orb like hype in the next two weeks?

They seem similar to me in ways.

Comparing Orb to AP is ridiculous.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Comparing AP to Seattle Slew is ridiculous.

FTFY

[MaTH716]

I find it amazing that Espinoza worked out a trip from the 18 hole, where he was able to stay wide and not take any dirt to the face. That 5 trips in a row where he's been clear and clean.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I find it amazing that Espinoza worked out a trip from the 18 hole, where he was able to stay wide and not take any dirt to the face. That 5 trips in a row where he's been clear and clean.

He has put in some terrific rides in the TC races and is almost certain to be over bet in next year's Derby like Borel has been.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by pointman

He has put in some terrific rides in the TC races and is almost certain to be over bet in next year's Derby like Borel has been.

The only thing is Nick, he's usually riding a Baffert rocket that's taking money anyway.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Comparing Orb to AP is ridiculous.

Why?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Why?

A better question is how you can compare Orb to AP.

What possible similarities do they have besides winning the Derby?

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

A better question is how you can compare Orb to AP.

What possible similarities do they have besides winning the Derby?

The hype, for one thing. After the Derby, the public and media both talked as if the Triple Crown was a foregone conclusion. What price did Orb go off at in Baltimore, 3-5?

I wonder if the rioters will riot outside Pimlico.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by JJP

The hype, for one thing. After the Derby, the public and media both talked as if the Triple Crown was a foregone conclusion. What price did Orb go off at in Baltimore, 3-5?

I wonder if the rioters will riot outside Pimlico.

Nobody with any functioning gray matter thought he was going to win the Triple Crown. In fact, most people on here seemed to think his Derby win would be his last major win.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by JJP

The hype, for one thing. After the Derby, the public and media both talked as if the Triple Crown was a foregone conclusion. What price did Orb go off at in Baltimore, 3-5?

I wonder if the rioters will riot outside Pimlico.

no more curfew. no riots or protests since charges brought vs the police.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

A better question is how you can compare Orb to AP.

What possible similarities do they have besides winning the Derby?

Name trainer?

Favorite, very well regarded coming into the Derby and delivered?

Won in impressive fashion?

Had cake trips that hindered several in the field?

Will be 3/5 in their next start when they probably dont deserve to be any thing better than 7/5?


Just saying, nothing in common at all.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Name trainer?
Who isnt a name trainer in the Derby?

Favorite, very well regarded coming into the Derby and delivered?
Orb didnt have NEAR the hype AP did nor should he have

Won in impressive fashion?
Orb won a staggerfest after suicidal early pace

Had cake trips that hindered several in the field?
AP made his trip Orb inherited his hardily comparable

Will be 3/5 in their next start when they probably dont deserve to be any thing better than 7/5?
Depends who shows up


Just saying, nothing in common at all.

Just saying

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Name trainer?

Favorite, very well regarded coming into the Derby and delivered?

Won in impressive fashion?

Had cake trips that hindered several in the field?

Will be 3/5 in their next start when they probably dont deserve to be any thing better than 7/5?


Just saying, nothing in common at all.

You also left off that they both breathe oxygen, eat grassy stuff, poop, pee, drink water, have four legs, at least partial tails, have two eyes, etc..

I stand corrected.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So American Pharoah, who we were told has three or four gears, and can run as fast as need be to win ( essentially ) any race, needed 32 stings of the whip to run ( effectively ) the same race he ran in Arkansas?

American Pharoah got a dream trip to win the Derby by three quarters of a length over a horse that didn't change leads in the stretch. The pre-race BS about this horse was completely exposed.

True, he didn't look as good as the hype portrayed him to be, but to say he was completely exposed is premature.

Hell, I didn't think he was going to win going down the backside.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

True, he didn't look as good as the hype portrayed him to be, but to say he was completely exposed is premature.

Hell, I didn't think he was going to win going down the backside.

I didn't say the horse was completely exposed. I said the over the top hype was completely exposed.

I have never suggested American Pharoah wasn't a good horse. I said that the hype he was generating was not backed up by his on-track performance. The response I usually got was some BS about him displaying mythical qualities in the morning. This was clearly not backed up by his performance in the Derby....which was good, but hardly in the pantheon of great Derby performances.

As far as what he looked like down the backstretch....you are in the minority. Had he been the horse some experts wanted us to believe, he would have won by more, without being hit 32 times.

Quite a few horses, good horses, have followed up Derby wins with far more decisive Preakness performances. It surely possible that American Pharoah could be one of those. We'll see.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I didn't say the horse was completely exposed. I said the over the top hype was completely exposed.

I have never suggested American Pharoah wasn't a good horse. I said that the hype he was generating was not backed up by his on-track performance. The response I usually got was some BS about him displaying mythical qualities in the morning. This was clearly not backed up by his performance in the Derby....which was good, but hardly in the pantheon of great Derby performances.

As far as what he looked like down the backstretch....you are in the minority. Had he been the horse some experts wanted us to believe, he would have won by more, without being hit 32 times.

Quite a few horses, good horses, have followed up Derby wins with far more decisive Preakness performances. It surely possible that American Pharoah could be one of those. We'll see.

I just didn't think he was moving as well as he usually does (down the backstretch).

And I am in the minority apparently, and that is often a good thing. I was adamant with DrugS, for instance, that Big Brown wouldn't win the Belmont, and in fact, should be kept out of the race.

The Pharoah is a real difficult horse to get a read on. There are things about him that are awesome, but others that are equally worrying.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I just didn't think he was moving as well as he usually does (down the backstretch).

And I am in the minority apparently, and that is often a good thing. I was adamant with DrugS, for instance, that Big Brown wouldn't win the Belmont, and in fact, should be kept out of the race.

The Pharoah is a real difficult horse to get a read on. There are things about him that are awesome, but others that are equally worrying.

I honestly thought that he was in trouble with a half mile to go. Maybe I just bought into the myth and figured he'd be moving in hand until the top of the lane.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I honestly thought that he was in trouble with a half mile to go. Maybe I just bought into the myth and figured he'd be moving in hand until the top of the lane.

But Matt, how could you conclude that after The Don, Don Guido or DG, whichever your prefer, says he hardly broke a sweat on Saturday?