New Congressman Thinks Quran Thumps Constitution

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Here is a quote from the article:

"But within days of being elected, Ellison held a workshop on politics for a group closely affiliated with a radical Islamic school that preaches no Muslim can pledge loyalty to the Constitution or make laws outside the laws of the Quran, which the school's leaders assert is the "supreme law" of the land, trumping all man-made laws including the U.S. Constitution."

Brian, This guy's campaign was backed by CAIR. The founder of that group believes the Quran should replace the Constitution. That would make alcohol illegal. It would make homosexuality illegal. I don't even know what the punishment for homosexuality is in Islam. I believe it's imprisonment or possibly even death.

You know, I'm not that worried nor am I really going to dig into this guy's history. I imagine if he was actually dangerous that much of this would have surfaced before the vote. From the conversations that I've had on the other forum regarding this issue -- it's all just a bunch of crap dressed up as concern for our country. It has everything to do with him being a Muslim. If he were actually patently radical and/or dangerous, there is no chance in hell he would have been elected.

Look on the bright side -- let's say I'm wrong. Let's say he's as radical as they come, let's say he's a Bin Laden in a Congressman's clothing. Let's say all that you're so worried about is true. What the hell is he going to do about it? Are we really worried that the power of his vote (which mind you, accounts for roughly two-tenths of ONE percent of the entire House of Representatives) is going to Islamicize this country? Are we really worried that his two-tenths of one percent is going to outlaw alcohol and punish homosexuals with death?

A classic case of the Christian right forgetting about the proverbial "bigger fish to fry."

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

You know, I'm not that worried nor am I really going to dig into this guy's history. I imagine if he was actually dangerous that much of this would have surfaced before the vote. From the conversations that I've had on the other forum regarding this issue -- it's all just a bunch of crap dressed up as concern for our country. It has everything to do with him being a Muslim. If he were actually patently radical and/or dangerous, there is no chance in hell he would have been elected.

Look on the bright side -- let's say I'm wrong. Let's say he's as radical as they come, let's say he's a Bin Laden in a Congressman's clothing. Let's say all that you're so worried about is true. What the hell is he going to do about it? Are we really worried that the power of his vote (which mind you, accounts for roughly two-tenths of ONE percent of the entire House of Representatives) is going to Islamicize this country? Are we really worried that his two-tenths of one percent is going to outlaw alcohol and punish homosexuals with death?

A classic case of the Christian right forgetting about the proverbial "bigger fish to fry."

I find it curious that you'd speak for a group that you have no idealogical leanings invested. Your last line makes no sense at all!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

I find it curious that you'd speak for a group that you have no idealogical leanings invested. Your last line makes no sense at all!

what???

i seriously don't get what your saying.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

what???

i seriously don't get what your saying.

Brian: It's pretty simple...you don't espouse the beliefs of the Christian right,but you feel free to speak for them as to how they feel or what they think?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Brian: It's pretty simple...you don't espouse the beliefs of the Christian right,but you feel free to speak for them as to how they feel or what they think?

I don't claim to speak for them, I never had, I never will. I'm not sure what part of my post you interpreted as such a claim -- but whichever part it was...it was terribly misinterpreted.

[Downthestretch55]

Although I personally believe in the teachings of Jesus, I do not belong to any "religion".
Seems to me that radical Islamic people (Islamo-Fascists) are just about as scarey as these..Christian-fascists.
Read it all first..comment later.
http://www.countercurrents.org/us-santos061106.htm

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

You know, I'm not that worried nor am I really going to dig into this guy's history. I imagine if he was actually dangerous that much of this would have surfaced before the vote. From the conversations that I've had on the other forum regarding this issue -- it's all just a bunch of crap dressed up as concern for our country. It has everything to do with him being a Muslim. If he were actually patently radical and/or dangerous, there is no chance in hell he would have been elected.

Look on the bright side -- let's say I'm wrong. Let's say he's as radical as they come, let's say he's a Bin Laden in a Congressman's clothing. Let's say all that you're so worried about is true. What the hell is he going to do about it? Are we really worried that the power of his vote (which mind you, accounts for roughly two-tenths of ONE percent of the entire House of Representatives) is going to Islamicize this country? Are we really worried that his two-tenths of one percent is going to outlaw alcohol and punish homosexuals with death?

A classic case of the Christian right forgetting about the proverbial "bigger fish to fry."

Brian: your quote is listed above....A classic case.... you are speaking about how they think(presuming to know) So how can you do that if you dont think like them or believe in what you think they espouse? It is pretty hard to misinrpret a one liner!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Brian: your quote is listed above....A classic case.... you are speaking about how they think(presuming to know) So how can you do that if you dont think like them or believe in what you think they espouse? It is pretty hard to misinrpret a one liner!

The only thing in that entire quote that has anything to do with the Christian right is the last line, and so I will address that.

It has nothing to do with how they think -- it is how I view the priorities of the Christian right and their politics.

Note that this whole uproar is really only coming from the far Christian right. There aren't a whole lot of liberals complaining that this man wants to take his ceremonial oath on the Quran, because there is no harm in it unless it's a religious objection. With that said, I liken it to gay marriage. I view their priorities, as projected in the press releases they put out, the columns they write, and the legislation they champion - as skewed.

Be against gay marriage, totally their prerogative. But don't focus all of the group's political clout on that issue when kids are starving and uninsured. Go ahead and be wildly afraid that ONE Muslim congressman is going to somehow overthrow the Constitution and waste resources attacking him when poverty runs rampant in the very same peoples' backyards.

That to me, is the classic case of the Christian right chasing stupid issues that don't REALLY affect anyone, or anyone's way of life -- when the proverbial "bigger fish to fry" are sitting there totally untouched because the group's political energy and clout is being squandered worrying about the little fish, aka gay marriage and now this ridiculous little flap over the Quran.


Now, if you still believe I am attempting to speak for the Christian right, please let me know where and I can clarify further because it's the furthest from what I am trying to do. I hope this cleared that up.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

The only thing in that entire quote that has anything to do with the Christian right is the last line, and so I will address that.

It has nothing to do with how they think -- it is how I view the priorities of the Christian right and their politics.

Note that this whole uproar is really only coming from the far Christian right. There aren't a whole lot of liberals complaining that this man wants to take his ceremonial oath on the Quran, because there is no harm in it unless it's a religious objection. With that said, I liken it to gay marriage. I view their priorities, as projected in the press releases they put out, the columns they write, and the legislation they champion - as skewed.

Be against gay marriage, totally their prerogative. But don't focus all of the group's political clout on that issue when kids are starving and uninsured. Go ahead and be wildly afraid that ONE Muslim congressman is going to somehow overthrow the Constitution and waste resources attacking him when poverty runs rampant in the very same peoples' backyards.

That to me, is the classic case of the Christian right chasing stupid issues that don't REALLY affect anyone, or anyone's way of life -- when the proverbial "bigger fish to fry" are sitting there totally untouched because the group's political energy and clout is being squandered worrying about the little fish, aka gay marriage and now this ridiculous little flap over the Quran.

I believe they think in extremely skewed, and often hateful ways -- and since I am incapable of doing that, it would actually be impossible for me to try to speak for them.

Now, if you still believe I am attempting to speak for the Christian right, please let me know where and I can clarify further because it's the furthest from what I am trying to do. I hope this cleared that up.

Brian, what denomination are you?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by GPK

Brian, what denomination are you?

I belong to a Christian Reformed Church.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

The only thing in that entire quote that has anything to do with the Christian right is the last line, and so I will address that.

It has nothing to do with how they think -- it is how I view the priorities of the Christian right and their politics.

Note that this whole uproar is really only coming from the far Christian right. There aren't a whole lot of liberals complaining that this man wants to take his ceremonial oath on the Quran, because there is no harm in it unless it's a religious objection. With that said, I liken it to gay marriage. I view their priorities, as projected in the press releases they put out, the columns they write, and the legislation they champion - as skewed.

Be against gay marriage, totally their prerogative. But don't focus all of the group's political clout on that issue when kids are starving and uninsured. Go ahead and be wildly afraid that ONE Muslim congressman is going to somehow overthrow the Constitution and waste resources attacking him when poverty runs rampant in the very same peoples' backyards.

That to me, is the classic case of the Christian right chasing stupid issues that don't REALLY affect anyone, or anyone's way of life -- when the proverbial "bigger fish to fry" are sitting there totally untouched because the group's political energy and clout is being squandered worrying about the little fish, aka gay marriage and now this ridiculous little flap over the Quran.


Now, if you still believe I am attempting to speak for the Christian right, please let me know where and I can clarify further because it's the furthest from what I am trying to do. I hope this cleared that up.

Brian: please note that the article link is from WorldNewsDaily...hardly a Christian right wing site! So...what we have is you speaking about the Christian right reacting to Ellison and the Quoran...which is not what happened! So...once again your bias shows through. You can be what ever you want to Brian...gay,liberal,muslim,Rastafarian...please..j ust know what you talking about when you pretend to know what somebody is about!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Brian: please note that the article link is from WorldNewsDaily...hardly a Christian right wing site! So...what we have is you speaking about the Christian right reacting to Ellison and the Quoran...which is not what happened! So...once again your bias shows through. You can be what ever you want to Brian...gay,liberal,muslim,Rastafarian...please..j ust know what you talking about when you pretend to know what somebody is about!

Hummm....I realize that the writer here is throwing out broad examples but that's an interesting group..."gay, liberal, Muslim, Rastafarian"....the last two are religions and their members are rather homogeneous in beliefs, especially related to "religious topics" but gays and liberals...well, not so much, especially gays who tend to cover the entire spectrum of philosophic and religious thought....so, why include them in such a listing?? Another "interesting" aspect here is the lead in..."you can be whatever you want to...". Gosh, it sure sounds like you are saying that a person is gay because they want to be or it's a matter of choice on their part....interesting!

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Hummm....I realize that the writer here is throwing out broad examples but that's an interesting group..."gay, liberal, Muslim, Rastafarian"....the last two are religions and their members are rather homogeneous in beliefs, especially related to "religious topics" but gays and liberals...well, not so much, especially gays who tend to cover the entire spectrum of philosophic and religious thought....so, why include them in such a listing?? Another "interesting" aspect here is the lead in..."you can be whatever you want to...". Gosh, it sure sounds like you are saying that a person is gay because they want to be or it's a matter of choice on their part....interesting!

Somer: I think you're projecting...Brian said he was gay and liberal,I'm not zoning in on that. This is America..you can be what you want to be. Doesn't a person choose their lifestyle? Explain.please...

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Somer: I think you're projecting...Brian said he was gay and liberal,I'm not zoning in on that. This is America..you can be what you want to be. Doesn't a person choose their lifestyle? Explain.please...

So...you are clearly stating here that you believe a person chooses to be gay! Is that correct?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

The only thing in that entire quote that has anything to do with the Christian right is the last line, and so I will address that.

It has nothing to do with how they think -- it is how I view the priorities of the Christian right and their politics.

Note that this whole uproar is really only coming from the far Christian right. There aren't a whole lot of liberals complaining that this man wants to take his ceremonial oath on the Quran, because there is no harm in it unless it's a religious objection. With that said, I liken it to gay marriage. I view their priorities, as projected in the press releases they put out, the columns they write, and the legislation they champion - as skewed.

Be against gay marriage, totally their prerogative. But don't focus all of the group's political clout on that issue when kids are starving and uninsured. Go ahead and be wildly afraid that ONE Muslim congressman is going to somehow overthrow the Constitution and waste resources attacking him when poverty runs rampant in the very same peoples' backyards.

That to me, is the classic case of the Christian right chasing stupid issues that don't REALLY affect anyone, or anyone's way of life -- when the proverbial "bigger fish to fry" are sitting there totally untouched because the group's political energy and clout is being squandered worrying about the little fish, aka gay marriage and now this ridiculous little flap over the Quran.


Now, if you still believe I am attempting to speak for the Christian right, please let me know where and I can clarify further because it's the furthest from what I am trying to do. I hope this cleared that up.

As I said before, I don't think the main issue is that the guy wants to take his oath on the Quran. That's not what really concerns people. What really concerns people's is what this guy's true views are. People are wondering if this guy has the same views as the groups he assocites with. I guess you can say that it's not important if he has extreme views because he is only man and he won't be able to have an effect on Congress. You could say that. But I don't think you would be saying that if this guy was a Christian with ties to the KKK or some other extreme groups. People would be very concerned and they would have a right to be. I don't know why you're giving this guy a free pass just because he is a Muslim.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

As I said before, I don't think the main issue is that the guy wants to take his oath on the Quran. That's not what really concerns people. What really concerns people's is what this guy's true views are. People are wondering if this guy has the same views as the groups he assocites with. I guess you can say that it's not important if he has extreme views because he is only man and he won't be able to have an effect on Congress. You could say that. But I don't think you would be saying that if this guy was a Christian with ties to the KKK or some other extreme groups. People would be very concerned and they would have a right to be. I don't know why you're giving this guy a free pass just because he is a Muslim.

Rupert,
Since you mentioned the KKK and all the concern it would cause if they showed up in Washington DC with their "extreme views", perhaps you'd like to do a "google" on Indiana politics, Stephenson.
And yes, the KKK did have many marches down Pennsylvania Ave in the late 1920's and early 30's.
I'll search it for you and post the link.

[Downthestretch55]

Here you go...Read the first five pages.
http://www.in.gov/ism/Images/LessonP...sonPlan_47.pdf

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Here you go...Read the first five pages.
http://www.in.gov/ism/Images/LessonP...sonPlan_47.pdf

I think they had a pretty strong following even much more recently than that. I think they were pretty active in the Southern states as recently as the 1960s. Thankfully they don't have much of a following any more. They are a disgraceful group.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

From the conversations that I've had on the other forum regarding this issue -- it's all just a bunch of crap dressed up as concern for our country. It has everything to do with him being a Muslim. If he were actually patently radical and/or dangerous, there is no chance in hell he would have been elected.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Brian: please note that the article link is from WorldNewsDaily...hardly a Christian right wing site! So...what we have is you speaking about the Christian right reacting to Ellison and the Quoran...which is not what happened! So...once again your bias shows through. You can be what ever you want to Brian...gay,liberal,muslim,Rastafarian...please..j ust know what you talking about when you pretend to know what somebody is about!

I apologize if this link is considered the definitive source for this debate. This one story? Note the bold text in the original post. I began by referencing my experience on a Christian message board, and the links posted there and the research I have done has shown that it is generally the Christian right that is worried about this. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't actually recollect making any judgment about this news source's partisan or religious affiliation. So you're accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about, and here I will accuse you of the same. You're implying that I have branded World News Daily as a right-wing Christian group. I am talking about the Christian right. You are saying that I am including this news source in that umbrella.

That's your injection into what I've written, not what I have actually written.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I apologize if this link is considered the definitive source for this debate. This one story? Note the bold text in the original post. I began by referencing my experience on a Christian message board, and the links posted there and the research I have done has shown that it is generally the Christian right that is worried about this. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't actually recollect making any judgment about this news source's partisan or religious affiliation. So you're accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about, and here I will accuse you of the same. You're implying that I have branded World News Daily as a right-wing Christian group. I am talking about the Christian right. You are saying that I am including this news source in that umbrella.

That's your injection into what I've written, not what I have actually written.

PARSE PARSE PARSE...so show me a link to what you think the Christian right is saying ...and what they believe...so far all I have to go on is your interpretation,which I think is faulty.