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  #1  
Old 10-28-2014, 06:12 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
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Originally Posted by Indian Charlie View Post
That's silly. About him being a much more likely winner than Daredevil.

I'll grant you that Daredevil, of the two, was more likely to flop badly.

And yeah, I understand you thinking Nick was being a chicken not posting that thought before AP was scratched, but hell, the race is still four days away. Not too many people have posted their analysis just yet.
Nick is a chicken? How is a guy that does public handicapping considered a chicken?

Nick has one of the best opinions of anyone I have ever known. His public handicapping record is superior. He's also about the least disingenuous person I have ever known. He didn't like American Pharoah. Frankly, no handicapper whose opinion I respect at all liked him on Saturday.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:30 PM
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Indian Charlie Indian Charlie is offline
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Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
Nick is a chicken? How is a guy that does public handicapping considered a chicken?

Nick has one of the best opinions of anyone I have ever known. His public handicapping record is superior. He's also about the least disingenuous person I have ever known. He didn't like American Pharoah. Frankly, no handicapper whose opinion I respect at all liked him on Saturday.
I wasn't calling him a chicken. I was saying I could understand how RTH might think he was chicken by not posting his opinion about AP before he was withdrawn.

I then said that there was still four days still left until the race, meaning that his opinion would have been more than likely posted in the coming days.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:36 PM
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Indian Charlie Indian Charlie is offline
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I am curious as to what all these handicappers saw in AP that made him a toss out in this race.

I saw him far from being a lock in there, but I can see nothing that would make me think he's a complete throwout.
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  #4  
Old 10-28-2014, 06:37 PM
RockHardTen1985 RockHardTen1985 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indian Charlie View Post
I wasn't calling him a chicken. I was saying I could understand how RTH might think he was chicken by not posting his opinion about AP before he was withdrawn.

I then said that there was still four days still left until the race, meaning that his opinion would have been more than likely posted in the coming days.
I never called him a chicken. I said its a silly thing to say because now the horse is not running anyway. The horse has paired up triple digit beyers, that's big for a 2yr old. Why anyone would call him the biggest bet against of the weekend is confusing to me. I would think horses like Judy the Beauty and No Nay Never at 5-2 and 9-2 would be much bigger bet's against then American Monster.

Last edited by RockHardTen1985 : 10-28-2014 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:38 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
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Originally Posted by Indian Charlie View Post
I wasn't calling him a chicken. I was saying I could understand how RTH might think he was chicken by not posting his opinion about AP before he was withdrawn.

I then said that there was still four days still left until the race, meaning that his opinion would have been more than likely posted in the coming days.
I knew what you meant. I should have said it differently.

He set a very slow pace last time, having things very much his own way, and was meeting both better horses and horses that were faster early.

It wasn't that he couldn't win, it was more that he was a reasonably unlikely winner that was going to be favored. That makes him a great bet against.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:54 PM
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asudevil asudevil is offline
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Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
I knew what you meant. I should have said it differently.

He set a very slow pace last time, having things very much his own way, and was meeting both better horses and horses that were faster early.

It wasn't that he couldn't win, it was more that he was a reasonably unlikely winner that was going to be favored. That makes him a great bet against.
Hey BTW,

Where will your BC selections be posted? nyra.com?

Thanks,
ASU
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2014, 07:07 PM
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Calzone Lord Calzone Lord is offline
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If Upstart was trained by someone generic -- he'd be both my Breeders Cup Juvenile horse and my early Kentucky Derby standout prospect.

Unfortunately, he's trained by Rick Violette, who is uncommonly good with debuting 2-year-olds -- and unlike the general trainer, he's not a guy that you can trust to develop a horse who is impressive early.

That horse is by Flatter out of a Touch Gold mare. Not only is that a big-time anti precocity pedigree, but it's a very good distance pedigree. Both the grandsire (A. P. Indy) and damsire (Touch Gold) were Belmont Stakes winners.

He was so green in his debut, Ortiz looked like your average 7-lbs bug riding him, and he still blew a nice NY Bred MSW field away with a good figure going just 5.5 furlongs.

If Rick Violette has no association with this horse, and he wasn't going East to West and breaking from post 13...I'd be real excited about him.
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:17 PM
RockHardTen1985 RockHardTen1985 is offline
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Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
If Upstart was trained by someone generic -- he'd be both my Breeders Cup Juvenile horse and my early Kentucky Derby standout prospect.

Unfortunately, he's trained by Rick Violette, who is uncommonly good with debuting 2-year-olds -- and unlike the general trainer, he's not a guy that you can trust to develop a horse who is impressive early.

That horse is by Flatter out of a Touch Gold mare. Not only is that a big-time anti precocity pedigree, but it's a very good distance pedigree. Both the grandsire (A. P. Indy) and damsire (Touch Gold) were Belmont Stakes winners.

He was so green in his debut, Ortiz looked like your average 7-lbs bug riding him, and he still blew a nice NY Bred MSW field away with a good figure going just 5.5 furlongs.

If Rick Violette has no association with this horse, and he wasn't going East to West and breaking from post 13...I'd be real excited about him.
In a way hasnt he already busted the Violette curse?? He has run 3 big races already. Not just one and fall apart like the typical Rick V baby.
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