Jockey shenanigans mar BC prep races

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The horse was finished before the final turn. I doubt that being in the 3 path would have made 3/8ths of a mile difference.

Lets have an honest discussion here. In 80% of the races run in this country you have to consider what the jockeys effort level is going to be for certain horses. Longshots are often ridden with less than maximum effort. Dropdowns are often "carefully handled". Why do people think bug riders strting out get so many chances? They will let them run because often they dont know any better.

Do i think that it was a coincidence that Espinoza did what he did? No. But can we really start suspending people based on speculation? Because pushing a horse out an extra path or 2 on the turn isnt the crime that it has been made out to be.

I don't agree as a bettor but respect your opinion on this.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

I don't agree as a bettor but respect your opinion on this.

Dont agree with what part?

I as a participant in most areas of the industry also have a hard time believing that anyone who bets and is disgruntled about a particular ride will get more than a brief few seconds of satisfaction when a rider gets a 7 day suspension. I mean are you rooting for him to get sunburned while lounging on the beach?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dont agree with what part?

I as a participant in most areas of the industry also have a hard time believing that anyone who bets and is disgruntled about a particular ride will get more than a brief few seconds of satisfaction when a rider gets a 7 day suspension. I mean are you rooting for him to get sunburned while lounging on the beach?

What I gathered from your post is that I should just STFU and quite whining cause that is how things go. I feel the bettors were defrauded by a jock not even attempting to compete in the race. We don't agree and I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change my mind. So I can either accept the way things are or cut my handle even more than I already have.

[10 pnt move up]

There were a few shenanigans that went on in the JCGC, have heard very little in the way of any rulings from that race.

The two california trained horses had, well, questionable rides.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by jms62

What I gathered from your post is that I should just STFU and quite whining cause that is how things go. I feel the bettors were defrauded by a jock not even attempting to compete in the race. We don't agree and I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change my mind. So I can either accept the way things are or cut my handle even more than I already have.

The game is falling apart yet the people in the industry keep telling us that there is nothing to see here, move along. Not picking on Chuck but racing has an image issue big time to go along with many other issues. Can you imagine if horses were floated to the 7 path on the first turn in every race as just part of race riding. If its such a great tactic why dont we see it done more?

[Indian Charlie]

Yes, the apologists for this sport are pathetic.

How come you don't see rides like that on the favorite, taking out a longshot??????


Espinoza is so obviously guilty, you can tell by watching him in the race, and how he has phrased his answers since.

[MaTH716]

David Grening ‏@DRFGrening · 12m12 minutes ago
Junior Alvarado was suspended 15 days by the stewards for Saturday's Gold Cup ride. He has 48 hours to decide whether or not to appeal.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

David Grening ‏@DRFGrening · 12m12 minutes ago
Junior Alvarado was suspended 15 days by the stewards for Saturday's Gold Cup ride. He has 48 hours to decide whether or not to appeal.

15 days seems kind of weak honestly.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

The game is falling apart yet the people in the industry keep telling us that there is nothing to see here, move along. Not picking on Chuck but racing has an image issue big time to go along with many other issues. Can you imagine if horses were floated to the 7 path on the first turn in every race as just part of race riding. If its such a great tactic why dont we see it done more?

I'm of the opinion that the way 36-1 shots are ridden is low on the list of racings ills. There are bad rides in hundreds of races a week. There have been bad rides for as long as racing has been around. This isnt new. Social media is new.

The way it seems to go now is whatever issue you guys have with racing gets thrown into the "game is falling apart" category, daring anyone in the business to defend it. I will say again when the stewards are being influenced by social media and the status of the horses in question you can really start wondering about image issues.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm of the opinion that the way 36-1 shots are ridden is low on the list of racings ills. There are bad rides in hundreds of races a week. There have been bad rides for as long as racing has been around. This isnt new. Social media is new.

The way it seems to go now is whatever issue you guys have with racing gets thrown into the "game is falling apart" category, daring anyone in the business to defend it. I will say again when the stewards are being influenced by social media and the status of the horses in question you can really start wondering about image issues.

I am in the opinion that the betting public has a better platform than they ever have in the past and thats why you actually see some movement when issues are brought to light, albeit at a snails pace in most cases.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I am in the opinion that the betting public has a better platform than they ever have in the past and thats why you actually see some movement when issues are brought to light, albeit at a snails pace in most cases.

The betting public is a quite diverse population and based on twitter and facebook a very vocal part of it is clueless despite the best efforts of many to try to give them a clue.

Naturally many people wind up following the clueless because what they say might sound good even though it is completely wrong.

It is for that very reason that racing is essentially doomed. Regardless of what racing does and what rules are passed most people are going to believe their preconceived notions anyway. Racing has done a miserable job educating people and even when smart guys like some of the visable public figures go out of their way to try to help educate people they are routinely savaged on social media for taking a stance that may not pan out.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

What I gathered from your post is that I should just STFU and quite whining cause that is how things go. I feel the bettors were defrauded by a jock not even attempting to compete in the race. We don't agree and I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change my mind. So I can either accept the way things are or cut my handle even more than I already have.

This idea that you have that every horses is 100% ridden to win every time is myopic. If you wont accept that then pretty much everything else you believe will be wrong as well.

A lot of people toss out the bettor card like you did here and whine that you arent betting anymore or have been disrespected. It is pretty weak.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This idea that you have that every horses is 100% ridden to win every time is myopic. If you wont accept that then pretty much everything else you believe will be wrong as well.

A lot of people toss out the bettor card like you did here and whine that you arent betting anymore or have been disrespected. It is pretty weak.

1. It was a graded stakes race almost universally you can expect an effort from a horse in that type of race instead of him used as a battering ram.

2. Weak? Another trainer saying **** the bettors. Nice.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

1. It was a graded stakes race almost universally you can expect an effort from a horse in that type of race instead of him used as a battering ram.

2. So my point as a bettor is weak? Ever consider that without us there is no fuking game? ever consider the constant dismissive responses from the industry is part of what is driving us to say fuk you alreay?

The 2nd sentence is EXACTLY what i am talking about. The idea that bettors can take whatever stance they want without a counter BECAUSE WITHOUT YOU THE GAME FAILS TO EXIST!!!!!

Jesus cant there be a discussion on a topic without all the dramatics?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The 2nd sentence is EXACTLY what i am talking about. The idea that bettors can take whatever stance they want without a counter BECAUSE WITHOUT YOU THE GAME FAILS TO EXIST!!!!!

Jesus cant there be a discussion on a topic without all the dramatics?

Pretty funny that you use the tired Internet strategy of repeating a Valid point as if it diffuses it. It doesn't. This is becoming more of an argument against the way I feel the industry treats its paying customers than it is about the issue. i need to step away. you win chuck bettors are stupid and if one goes away 2 more will follow or maybe it is just me being naive and thinking I am playing a game that will be policed to insure integrity to its customers.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dont agree with what part?

I as a participant in most areas of the industry also have a hard time believing that anyone who bets and is disgruntled about a particular ride will get more than a brief few seconds of satisfaction when a rider gets a 7 day suspension. I mean are you rooting for him to get sunburned while lounging on the beach?

Another dismissive post.

It boggles the mind how anyone can defend the status quo.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Another dismissive post.

It boggles the mind how anyone can defend the status quo.

What status quo? Are you of the mindset that every horse is ridden 100% to win every time? Seriously?

It boggles the mind that some cant understand what point I'm trying to make.