Baseball Playoffs

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Rays total payroll is $42 million.

I know. The irony was a Red Sox fan complaining about other people's free agent signings. I read yesterday that since 2005 the Red Sox have spent 591 million dollars in free agents and transfer fees. The person who provided the most value was Scudera. I looked but can't find the article. My point was the Phillies have spent money on pitching and at least have gotten some value on their $$$$.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I know. The irony was a Red Sox fan complaining about other people's free agent signings. I read yesterday that since 2005 the Red Sox have spent 591 million dollars in free agents and transfer fees. The person who provided the most value was Scudera. I looked but can't find the article. My point was the Phillies have spent money on pitching and at least have gotten some value on their $$$$.

They have gotten results, the value is debatable. Free agency is such a gamble. There have been so many flops over the years that a team really needs to do their homework to have it pay off. The lure of the quick fix is too much for these big money teams not to dive in.

[slotdirt]

Are the Phillies getting value out of Oswalt right now? I'm not positive about that one.

[slotdirt]

Verlander had 15 pitches top 100 yesterday. Yikes.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Are the Phillies getting value out of Oswalt right now? I'm not positive about that one.

best regular season team ERA since 1991. exceeded regular season expectations. of course none of that matters now, its a new and more important playoff season.

As for Oswalt, you can't plan for injuries.. his last couple starts have been outstanding. he's back hitting his top fastball speed.

"The Astros will pay $11 million of the approximately $23 million that the 32-year-old Oswalt is guaranteed through 2011, sources told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark."


so 12 million total for 1 1/2 years of Oswalt is a great deal.

[slotdirt]

Is there ever a criticism of a Philadelphia sports team that you would actually agree with? $12 million for an ERA+ of 105 cannot possibly be a good investment.

P.S. - and it was $12 million for one injury-riddled season and two months of last year. If money is no object, then sure, it's a great way to spend the Phillies payroll. But in the world of baseball teams that are actuall cost conscious, it would be like paying $12 million for RA Dickey or Kyle Lohse this year.

[Dahoss]

I'm not sure they really exceeded regular season expectations either. This was the staff that was annointed "best since..." before the season started. They had a very good year, but they more or less did what was expected.

[slotdirt]

And none of that means jack if they can't at least make it out of the divisional series.

[Antitrust32]

there's no critism that comes from you slot that I'd agree with.

But there is plenty others I do agree with.

especially when its about that stupid football team.

[Antitrust32]

they have one of the best regular seasons when it comes to starting pitching in the history of baseball... but you come up with "what about oswalt?" when the man was injured all year.

We'll see what he does on Wednesday.. thats all that matters now.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Is there ever a criticism of a Philadelphia sports team that you would actually agree with? $12 million for an ERA+ of 105 cannot possibly be a good investment.

P.S. - and it was $12 million for one injury-riddled season and two months of last year. If money is no object, then sure, it's a great way to spend the Phillies payroll. But in the world of baseball teams that are actuall cost conscious, it would be like paying $12 million for RA Dickey or Kyle Lohse this year.

I think you are looking at it wrong. They went for it last year and if you're a fan of the team that's all you care about. Let's face it, all these guys are overpaid. Oswalt was arguably the best pitcher on the market and they went out and got him (for a discount). I feel like Oswalt was worth it, now Jake Peavy on the other hand.....................

[slotdirt]

The point someone was making is that the Phillies are at least spending their money well. Paying Oswalt $12 million for this season was not money well spent under any definition. Paying Raul Ibanez $12.17 million for a below average OPS+ is even worse. The Phillies paid Brad Lidge nearly $1 million for every inning he pitched this season.

Disagree with whatever you'd like, but if the point someone is making is that the Phillies have universarlly spent their money well, there's no arguing that they haven't.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I think you are looking at it wrong. They went for it last year and if you're a fan of the team that's all you care about. Let's face it, all these guys are overpaid. Oswalt was arguably the best pitcher on the market and they went out and got him (for a discount). I feel like Oswalt was worth it, now Jake Peavy on the other hand.....................

I don't disagree that getting him last year was a wise move. That being said, the point made above is that "at least the Phillies have spent their money well," and $12 million for the performances of Oswalt and Ibanez this year is not money well spent, no matter how one cuts it.

ETA - the word used was "value," not "money well spent." Either way, the Phillies aren't getting much value out of at least a few high priced acquisitions. Cannot argue that.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

The point someone was making is that the Phillies are at least spending their money well. Paying Oswalt $12 million for this season was not money well spent under any definition. Paying Raul Ibanez $12.17 million for a below average OPS+ is even worse. The Phillies paid Brad Lidge nearly $1 million for every inning he pitched this season.

Disagree with whatever you'd like, but if the point someone is making is that the Phillies have universarlly spent their money well, there's no arguing that they haven't.

well shi.t, you could say that about ever team in every sports league in America. Especially when you point out injured players. I mean look at the Cardinals. They paid Adam Wainwright 6.6 million and he didnt even make one start!

[slotdirt]

$6.6 million for a guy who finished in the top three in Cy Young voting the previous two seasons isn't a ton. But yeah, there isn't much value in any contract where a guy misses the entire season.

[Antitrust32]

I'll give you Ibanez all day long. His contract was one or two years too long. We'll have Mayberry in his spot next year.

But I'm not going to fault the Phillies for for Oswalt and Lidge, when they are two extremely talented pitchers (tho Lidge is scary sometimes) that were injured for the majority of the year. Any team in the league would have taken Oswalt before the year started for 8 or 9 million, whatever we paid him this year. Dude's a stud when healthy.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I don't disagree that getting him last year was a wise move. That being said, the point made above is that "at least the Phillies have spent their money well," and $12 million for the performances of Oswalt and Ibanez this year is not money well spent, no matter how one cuts it.

ETA - the word used was "value," not "money well spent." Either way, the Phillies aren't getting much value out of at least a few high priced acquisitions. Cannot argue that.

Baseball Free agency is so ridiculous that sometimes teams have to backload long contracts to sign guys. I remember when the Mets signed Pedro Martinez, the back end of the contract when he would be getting up in age was ludacris, but that's what helped getting him to NY. Sometimes trying to win now, leads you to having to bite the bullet at a later date.

[Antitrust32]

and Blanton. Even though he was injured pretty much all year long, I still think his contract extension was a mistake.


nobody will ever compare to the Adam Eaton contract though.

[slotdirt]

Don't disagree that sometimes teams have to overpay to get free agents. The Tigers are paying Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Guillen combined roughly $23 million this year. $23 million for eight home runs and 120 games played. That's some seriously wasted money.

[slotdirt]

I thought this warranted a couple of chuckles:

http://jest.com/video/46873/too-much-moneyball