Another glorious win for the homo-phobes?

[letswastemoney]

I can't understand why anyone would want to stop gays from getting married.

If gay marriage was legal.....

What exactly about that changes anyone's life?

So you might as well let them do it if they aren't harming you.

I think gays should be allowed to marry or marriage should be outlawed for everyone. Those are the only 2 fair options.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Most of the homophobes I've ever met are devout Christians.

God hates fags, after all.

yeah, it's amazing to me how the more devout they are, the more they don't follow the teachings of the guy they claim to believe in so much.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

I can't understand why anyone would want to stop gays from getting married.

If gay marriage was legal.....

What exactly about that changes anyone's life?

So you might as well let them do it if they aren't harming you.

I think gays should be allowed to marry or marriage should be outlawed for everyone. Those are the only 2 fair options.

exactly!

i read where someone said religion is an excuse to stick your nose in other peoples' business. i thought that was pretty accurate.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, it's amazing to me how the more devout they are, the more they don't follow the teachings of the guy they claim to believe in so much.

Well, it's a religion of conquest and domination. Not that most religions aren't, but that one in particular is the undisputed champion.

This whole gay marriage thing fits in nicely with their history.

Remember:

1. In the eyes of the Church, homosexuality is a sin against God.
2. To people who believe in that stuff, they are duty bound to actualize God's will.
3. This is a predominantly Christian country with a very powerful Christian lobby. Many of our 'leaders' are either religious themselves, or have been bought out/influenced by this lobby.

Untill God revokes the sin assigned to being gay, gay marriage initiatives are bound to fail.

That, or a true separation of Church and State happens. Which won't.

Homosexuals can try all they want to legalize marriage, but until they realize why they are failing, it's all completely futile.

How's that old quote go? "Those who keep repeating their same behavior but expect different results...."

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Ever heard of a paragraph?

LOL....It's "UNSTRUCTURED WRITING." I just did it for too long a period of time.

"Our first inspirations or impressions are usually the strongest, because they arise before our censor minds have a chance to interfere and make the material safe and sanitized."-Natalie Goldberg

In other words, this is me talking, and no effort to formally write was ever intended.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Well, it's a religion of conquest and domination. Not that most religions aren't, but that one in particular is the undisputed champion.

This whole gay marriage thing fits in nicely with their history.

Remember:

1. In the eyes of the Church, homosexuality is a sin against God.
2. To people who believe in that stuff, they are duty bound to actualize God's will.
3. This is a predominantly Christian country with a very powerful Christian lobby. Many of our 'leaders' are either religious themselves, or have been bought out/influenced by this lobby.

Untill God revokes the sin assigned to being gay, gay marriage initiatives are bound to fail.

That, or a true separation of Church and State happens. Which won't.

Homosexuals can try all they want to legalize marriage, but until they realize why they are failing, it's all completely futile.

How's that old quote go? "Those who keep repeating their same behavior but expect different results...."

one can only hope. they took prayer out of public schools, so who knows?

[PeteMugg]

Maybe if it's about religion and God, divorced people shouldn't be allowed to remarry either. This would include me ... so never mind.

Hell, I'm thinking a lot of folks I know shouldn't have been allowed to marry in the first place, not to mention procreate.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's not supposed to be majority rule. the will of the people isn't supposed to supercede the constitution. if the majority voted to get rid of the press, do you really think that would happen? so why should civil rights only be permitted to some? it's simple-they're not supposed to be. all are created equal is supposed to mean just that.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth and you don't even realize it. On the one hand, you are saying that the Constitution and the founding fathers had much more sense than the masses do today and that we should trust the judgement of the founding fathers. That is a reasonable argument.

But on the other hand, you know what things were like in those days. The founding fathers weren't in favor of gay marriage. I think gay sex was a crime back then. So you can't have it both ways. Which is it? Should we listen to everything the founding fathers said. Or should we ignore the founding fathers and do what we think is right?

I wouldn't even have a problem if you said that the Constitution was a good document in general but it needs some changes because the founding fathers were dead wrong on some issues. That would be a fair argument. But I think it's silly to invoke the Constitution when it comes to the gay marriage argument because we know that the founding fathers were not in favor of gay marriage and being gay was not acceptable in those days. I'm not saying the founding fathers were right on this issue, I'm just saying that that is where they stood on the issue. How can we pretend that the Constitution would allow gay marriage when we know the founding fathers who wrote the Constitution would have vehemently opposed gay marriage?

I'm not saying that gay marriage should be illegal. I'm not giving an opinion one way or the other on the issue. I'm just saying that when the founding fathers wrote the Constitution, allowing gay marriage was not one of their intentions. Quite to the contrary. If they would have even dreamed that there would be such a debate today, they would have probably spelled out specifically that there should be no gay marriages. Once again, I'm not saying they are right. They were far from infallible. They were in favor of slavery. I would say they were dead wrong on that issue.

I think it is a fair argument to say that gay marriage should be a right and that it should be legal. I could make an excellent case as to why gay marriage should be legal including the argument that it is the only fair thing to do. But I can't make an argument that it should be legal based on the founding fathers' document (the Constitution), because we know that the founding fathers would have never allowed gay marriage in a million years.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth and you don't even realize it. On the one hand, you are saying that the Constitution and the founding fathers had much more sense than the masses do today and that we should trust the judgement of the founding fathers. That is a reasonable argument.

But on the other hand, you know what things were like in those days. The founding fathers weren't in favor of gay marriage. I think gay sex was a crime back then. So you can't have it both ways. Which is it? Should we listen to everything the founding fathers said. Or should we ignore the founding fathers and do what we think is right?

I wouldn't even have a problem if you said that the Constitution was a good document in general but it needs some changes because the founding fathers were dead wrong on some issues. That would be a fair argument. But I think it's silly to invoke the Constitution when it comes to the gay marriage argument because we know that the founding fathers were not in favor of gay marriage and being gay was not acceptable in those days. I'm not saying the founding fathers were right on this issue, I'm just saying that that is where they stood on the issue. How can we pretend that the Constitution would allow gay marriage when we know the founding fathers who wrote the Constitution would have vehemently opposed gay marriage?

I'm not saying that gay marriage should be illegal. I'm not giving an opinion one way or the other on the issue. I'm just saying that when the founding fathers wrote the Constitution, allowing gay marriage was not one of their intentions. Quite to the contrary. If they would have even dreamed that there would be such a debate today, they would have probably spelled out specifically that there should be no gay marriages. Once again, I'm not saying they are right. They were far from infallible. They were in favor of slavery. I would say they were dead wrong on that issue.

I think it is a fair argument to say that gay marriage should be a right and that it should be legal. I could make an excellent case as to why gay marriage should be legal including the argument that it is the only fair thing to do. But I can't make an argument that it should be legal based on the founding fathers' document (the Constitution), because we know that the founding fathers would have never allowed gay marriage in a million years.

i am not talking out of both sides of my mouth. the founding fathers wished to protect the rights of the minority-which in this case would be homosexuals.
as for being in favor of slavery, you might want to re-read your history. the only reason why it wasn't abolished back when the articles of confederation and the constution was being ratified is the founders who were against it were more concerned in getting the southern states to become just that, hoping later that slavery would end-which is exactly what happened.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i am not talking out of both sides of my mouth. the founding fathers wished to protect the rights of the minority-which in this case would be homosexuals.
as for being in favor of slavery, you might want to re-read your history. the only reason why it wasn't abolished back when the articles of confederation and the constution was being ratified is the founders who were against it were more concerned in getting the southern states to become just that, hoping later that slavery would end-which is exactly what happened.

Are you actually claiming that the founding fathers may have been in favor of gay marriage? Do you think if a gay person in that era would have come up to one of the founding fatheres and asked them whether it would be legal for two people of the same sex to get married, that the founding fathers would have said "yes"? If the founding fathers wanted to protect the rights of gay people then why did they throw people in jail for being gay back then? The founing fathers obviously had no interest in protecting the rights of gay people. Quite to the contrary. They would arrest you for being gay back then.

I think it's absurd when people invoke the Constitution on issues where it is clear that the founding fathers had a totally different meaning than what some people claim. Let's take the death penalty for example. Some people say that the death penalty should be illegal. I have no problem with a person believing that the death penalty should be illegal based on that person's belief system. But I do have a problem with people that say the death penalty should be illegal because the Constitution says that it is not ok to use "cruel or unusual punishment". When the founding fathers talked about "cruel or unusual punishment", there is no chance that they would have considered the death penalty as "cruel or unusual". In that era, the death penalty was considered fine. People were put to death all the time. So the founding fathers obviously would not have considered the death penalty as "cruel or unusual punishment". The argument that the death penalty should be illegal on Constitutional grounds is absurd.

[Danzig]

i think that's why the constitution doesn't spell things out specifically. they didn't know exactly what would come up in future, so it doesn't say you have the right to life, libery and pursuit of happiness as long as you fit certain criteria. they were smart enough, or we were lucky enough, that they were pretty general about everyone being equal, and that it is NOT majority rule, so that the rights of the minority can't be trampled on.
like i've said before, the issue isn't with marriage-the issue is that you can't offer rights to some and not others. where this country screwed up is with granting rights to some just because they're married. if marriage is a religious institution, the govt should have stayed out of it. since they didn't, and have offered things to couples, they are obviously not treating everyone as being equal.

[dellinger63]

I can only speak for the catholic religion but as the parish members go so goes the church. It used to be unacceptable to marry a non-catholic girl/guy in the church and now it's commonplace. Long ago masses were in Latin understood by none. You used to have to go in a box to confess sins but now you talk face-to-face and get counseled instead of saying 10 hail Mary's and our fathers.

The church's bottom line IMO is survival and since it solely relies on it's parishioners for monetary support and ultimately survival it is constantly changing to 'play to its audience'. There are very few 'ole school' left and as the views of the people change so goes the church. As the parishoners become more accepting of gay marriage so will the church and we're very close to losing the 'ole schooler's'.

Most religions I think are similar. With the exception of the Muslim religion that apparently leads all to heterosexuality as Sadam Hussein once said there were no homosexuals in all of Iraq.