11/28 (AQU): Demoiselle/Remsen (Gr. II); Hill 'n' Dale Cigar (Gr. I)

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Riot is spot on . Report what was happening instead of silence and cutting the tv shots away from the accidents .

Anybody else want to join the newest clique?

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Riot is spot on . Report what was happening instead of silence and cutting the tv shots away from the accidents .

Yeah Sumitas you are spot on as well when you talk about how unsound a pedigree Wanderin Boy has, when he is running in a G1 at the end of his 7yo campaign.

This thread is a catastrophic breakdown.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Anybody else want to join the newest clique?

You see, this is exactly what is wrong with the sport, right here. You're not giving us enough information to go on and certainly not offering it fast enough for us to move on with our lives with a minimum of disruption.

Newest clique? Is that all we have to go on? What does this "new clique" entail, kind sir?

As you work for NYRA, who so clearly clutch on to the vital information we crave the way Golem did his "Precious" in the Rings Trilogy, let me be the modern day Prometheus (sorry Frankenstein) who brings fire to mere mortals.

After a quick run-through of the posts on this thread from the two charter members, here are the membership requirements for what I have dubbed the "What Just Happened?" clique:

(a) must have a rubber neck
(b) must have a lax sensitivity to the dimension of time, such that it is believed that all information is instantaneous and complete when called for
(c) must be suspected of trampling the poor man at the Long Island Wal-Mart on Friday
(d) must have had Win Only bets on Seeking The Gold in the Haskell, Travers, BC Classic, and Met Mile
(e) must have no access to result charts or track reports from various racing publications (in print or via the internet)
(f) must believe that Tom Durkin is the Word and that all Life fails to "happen" until He speaks of its "happening"
(g) must accept being told its "raining" when actually being pee-ed upon if it means that "everything is OK"
(h) must consume copious quantities of amphetamines

and...really the only one that matters:

(i) must be pissed that they're not in the loop

[Indian Charlie]

Can we have pg1985 chime in on this?

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Can we have pg1985 chime in on this?

Be careful what you wish for...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Riot is spot on . Report what was happening instead of silence and cutting the tv shots away from the accidents .

so you would rather they kept the camera on the horse, perhaps while it's suffering, and blathered on about myriad ways a horse can break down? yes, everyone wants to know about the horse-mainly if it's ok-but how often do we complain about a rush to say something, only to have 'news' reports turn out wrong?

it doesn't matter really what they do, you can't please everyone obviously-so there'll always be complaints from someone. so, personally i'd rather they be cautious, respectful, and tell us what they can when they can. everyone watching knows what it means when a jock pulls a horse up, he's in distress for some reason. i'd imagine they'll tell you when they can, no one is trying to keep state secrets or anything.

[King Glorious]

In general, I do not like horses these days that win at 9f so early in their careers. They receive so much hype early in their 3yo seasons and more often than not, don't come close to justifying it. The way this horse won the Remsen did not impress me at all. I don't see him as having much of a future in most races but wouldn't count him out of the Belmont picture provided he stays healthy. He just doesn't seem to have much speed and speed is vital in today's game. There just won't be many chances to get around in 24, 49, 1:14 at the stakes level.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

In general, I do not like horses these days that win at 9f so early in their careers. They receive so much hype early in their 3yo seasons and more often than not, don't come close to justifying it. The way this horse won the Remsen did not impress me at all. I don't see him as having much of a future in most races but wouldn't count him out of the Belmont picture provided he stays healthy. He just doesn't seem to have much speed and speed is vital in today's game. There just won't be many chances to get around in 24, 49, 1:14 at the stakes level.

I'm not buying the hype either. I am, however, happy to hype Quality Road. That horse is the real deal.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so you would rather they kept the camera on the horse, perhaps while it's suffering, and blathered on about myriad ways a horse can break down? yes, everyone wants to know about the horse-mainly if it's ok-but how often do we complain about a rush to say something, only to have 'news' reports turn out wrong?

it doesn't matter really what they do, you can't please everyone obviously-so there'll always be complaints from someone. so, personally i'd rather they be cautious, respectful, and tell us what they can when they can. everyone watching knows what it means when a jock pulls a horse up, he's in distress for some reason. i'd imagine they'll tell you when they can, no one is trying to keep state secrets or anything.

exactly. This isn't NASCAR. I don't go to the races to watch breakdowns.

[Linny]

BTW is right. They broadcast (I presume) from a studio, with a fixed camera. Unlike ESPN or even TVG which has mobile cameras and mobile mics, Jason and Andy (and to a lesser extent, Jan) are in one spot only. They don't have the ability to send a man out to the scene or to get comments from the vet or others tending the horse or rider. They can't report anything that is not an official release from the press office.
I do agree that a simple comment from Tom, "X appears to have pulled up in distress and is being tended to..." would be appropriate.
When a rider falls, it's clear from his voice that Tom (and John as well) is often shaken. If the rider gets up, he usually mentions it. As much as I love horses, I can't equate human and animal injury. That said, a single sentence from the one person with the best vantage point, would at least acknowledge what has happened.

[Travis Stone]

You can only speak to what you know. If I'm calling a race and I see a rider stand-up after a spill I will often say, "Pleased to report that [name] is on his feet and has appeared to escape serious injury for the moment." The same for a horse if he/she is up and galloping around with no significant issues apparent. I truly cannot say anything beyond that and doing so would be inappropriate. Word on the health and status of a jockey or horse needs to be official word - and I think this all applies to the events of yesterday.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Riot is spot on . Report what was happening instead of silence and cutting the tv shots away from the accidents .

Riot said nothing of that sort. You want to see TV shots of downed horses, I don't. That definitely should not be shown.

Like most of us I watch alot of different track feeds. Some do a good job of mentioning what happens if there's an accident during a race, some don't.

NYRA did a terrible job yesterday, completely ignoring what happened in big stakes races - twice - and not even mentioning it. IMO, not good enough by lengths.

[sumitas]

Sumitas said nothing of the sort . I don't want to see shots of downed horses . Although Eight Belles comes to mind . I would appreciate a factual statement that a horse is lame after the wire . Just like you state Riot . Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill .

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not buying the hype either. I am, however, happy to hype Quality Road. That horse is the real deal.

FINALLY, you and Stevie Belmont at Pace Ad are in agreement.

[blackthroatedwind]

Even Joe Obvious is right occasionally.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by sumitas

It is sad . Wanderin Boy's sire, Seeking The Gold, from the same family as Reviewer, sire of Ruffian, has a very bad reputation for producing unsound horses . Thankfully he has finally been retired .

a 7 year old who showed up for 5 years in stakes.. What a an unsound piece of shieat..Sumi you are priceless

[philcski]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

In general, I do not like horses these days that win at 9f so early in their careers. They receive so much hype early in their 3yo seasons and more often than not, don't come close to justifying it. The way this horse won the Remsen did not impress me at all. I don't see him as having much of a future in most races but wouldn't count him out of the Belmont picture provided he stays healthy. He just doesn't seem to have much speed and speed is vital in today's game. There just won't be many chances to get around in 24, 49, 1:14 at the stakes level.

I disagree completely with you on this one. The pace was slow, but he didn't just plod around at the end- when asked, he ran the final 3F in :36 flat. Compare that to the girls who went :39 over the same final 3F. He has shown ability to rate and relax. Soundness is my biggest concern, given that he's by Unbridled's Song, otherwise I see nothing that would dissuade me from saying he's my top Derby selection at this point.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by philcski

I disagree completely with you on this one. The pace was slow, but he didn't just plod around at the end- when asked, he ran the final 3F in :36 flat. Compare that to the girls who went :39 over the same final 3F. He has shown ability to rate and relax. Soundness is my biggest concern, given that he's by Unbridled's Song, otherwise I see nothing that would dissuade me from saying he's my top Derby selection at this point.

I feel that any horse worth their weight in salt should be able to finish in 36 if they've been allowed to go the first 6f in 1:14 and change. He didn't use any energy at all early so by rights, he should have had plenty left. By the way, the difference in the final 3f of the two races is not as pronounced as you describe it here. There wasn't a three-second difference in the two races.

Remsen
Old Fashioned led through 6f in 1:14.18 and finished in 1:50.33 for a final 3f of 36.15

Demoiselle
Springside was last through 6f in 1:12.65 (about 6 3/4 lengths back for an approximate time of 1:13.73 using .16 per beaten length) and finished in 1:51.71 for a final 3f in 37.98

That's a difference of 1.83 seconds, not the three you suggested.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I feel that any horse worth their weight in salt should be able to finish in 36 if they've been allowed to go the first 6f in 1:14 and change. He didn't use any energy at all early so by rights, he should have had plenty left. By the way, the difference in the final 3f of the two races is not as pronounced as you describe it here. There wasn't a three-second difference in the two races.

Remsen
Old Fashioned led through 6f in 1:14.18 and finished in 1:50.33 for a final 3f of 36.15

Demoiselle
Springside was last through 6f in 1:12.65 (about 6 3/4 lengths back for an approximate time of 1:13.73 using .16 per beaten length) and finished in 1:51.71 for a final 3f in 37.98

That's a difference of 1.83 seconds, not the three you suggested.

Your math is correct, I was referring to the :39 difference between the calls. Springside is obviously the only one that did any running at the end.

So by the way, she ran 6F in only 2 lengths faster than OF and finished 11 lengths slower. I guess she's not worth her weight in salt.