Crist: The great distaffers..

[Kasept]

The distribution Crist used was just CA, KY and NY, so in terms of that, it wouldn't include BC's in FL or MTH, LS, etc., or other significant stakes at Arlington, Fair Grounds, Hialeah-Gulfstream, et al, for example...

[randallscott35]

I would take Riboletta over Zenyatta every day of the week.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I would take Riboletta over Zenyatta every day of the week.

Not on synth, maybe, but Riboletta was faster on dirt.....by a city block.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

She raced twice outside of NY.

Regardless, why didn't you bring up Lady's Secret, as she should be the horse that Zenyatta is linked to being that she usurped Lady's Secret's legacy at Oak Tree?

I don't recall.....what was her geographic distribution?

I think you would agree that Personal Ensign has been linked more to Zenyatta than Lady's Secret from what I have heard on the internet and read on forums, so my smile shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think you would agree that Personal Ensign has been linked more to Zenyatta than Lady's Secret from what I have heard on the internet and read on forums, so my smile shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

I couldn't possibly care less what people on the internet, with generally no overview of racing history, use to compare racehorses. Personal Ensign was an East Coast based horse, owned by people intimately tied to NY racing, so the fact that she spent her injury plagued career in NY is about as surprising as the sun coming up. Since you brought her up, however, I will add that while racing in NY she did face males in one of NY's biggest stake races ( the Whitney ). No shame in staying home. However, a challenge here or there never hurts.

Be that as it may, Lady's Secret was owned by Eugene Klein, who also owned the San Diego Chargers, so unlike the Phipps family, and like the connections of your darling, he was based on the West Coast. Now, while obviously if someone wanted a championship campaign, ya know....wanted to earn it and not declare it, they needed to run in NY ( especially in the days of racing before the internet when a campaign didn't rest only on a horse's laurels from one day ), he still ran close to half of her races at his home base. He found it possible to do a little ( OK, in her case, a lot ) of both.

You really need to take a good look at Lady's Secret's pps some time. Frankly, you should look at the pps of ALL of those on Steve Crist's list. It might give you some very needed perspective. It isn't that any sane person would ever even entertain the notion that Zenyatta is not a spectacular horse. It's just that some of us have a better sense of history than others.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Personal Ensign was an East Coast based horse, owned by people intimately tied to NY racing, so the fact that she spent her injury plagued career in NY is about as surprising as the sun coming up. .

I don't want to get into a debate about comparing horses from different eras, its basically useless and futile.

I do find it odd though that you say that about the Phipps when the very same can be said about the owners of Zenyatta. Though she showed up in the sports biggest races (Breeders Cup, racings championship day) so its not like she skipped them because they were in NY.

Heck I remember one trainer in New York and had what would have been highly thought of horses for both the distaff and the sprint and said he had no interest in racing in California..............and this was when it was on dirt. No one even batted and eye brow in that case, go figure. Different standards is what is frustrating.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I couldn't possibly care less what people on the internet, with generally no overview of racing history, use to compare racehorses. Personal Ensign was an East Coast based horse, owned by people intimately tied to NY racing, so the fact that she spent her injury plagued career in NY is about as surprising as the sun coming up. Since you brought her up, however, I will add that while racing in NY she did face males in one of NY's biggest stake races ( the Whitney ). No shame in staying home. However, a challenge here or there never hurts.

Be that as it may, Lady's Secret was owned by Eugene Klein, who also owned the San Diego Chargers, so unlike the Phipps family, and like the connections of your darling, he was based on the West Coast. Now, while obviously if someone wanted a championship campaign, ya know....wanted to earn it and not declare it, they needed to run in NY ( especially in the days of racing before the internet when a campaign didn't rest only on a horse's laurels from one day ), he still ran close to half of her races at his home base. He found it possible to do a little ( OK, in her case, a lot ) of both.

You really need to take a good look at Lady's Secret's pps some time. Frankly, you should look at the pps of ALL of those on Steve Crist's list. It might give you some very needed perspective. It isn't that any sane person would ever even entertain the notion that Zenyatta is not a spectacular horse. It's just that some of us have a better sense of history than others.

But the Lady's Secret's are very few and far between, there are not many trainer's that would campaign horses today the way Lukas once did. Campaigns are now watered down for many top horses, injuried or not look how sparingly Ghostzapper ran in his final year of racing or Medaglia Doro for that matter. It was perhaps bad circumstance we did not see her ship the last 2 years other than the Apple Blossom with The BC being situated at SA two years in a row, regardless she is expected to run in the BC Classic this year and being that it is in Ky she will ship with maybe a race in NY before that. If she is successful, she would more than earned the right to be placed with the other great fillies/mares in this game. She is still writing her destiny in the game, you can't really judge her until the book is complete