IEAH buys into Court Vision

[The Bid]

Im looking forward to Big Brown

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I said nothing of the kind. There are plenty of slow horses out there and any horse can make a big jump from 2 to 3....and Bill Mott is certainly as good a trainer as there is at bringing a horse along.

I think it's funny that many people are knocking other 3YOs, that have already run, as being too slow ( and they may be right ) yet they are already lengths faster than Court Vision and he seems to be held in high regard right now. Personally he reminds me of that slow Patrick Biancone horse from a few years ago ( he actually won a prep at Fair Grounds ). Horses with late bursts of speed often fool people into thinking they are better than they are and they are not only usually too slow but also need very good set ups to get lucky.

Right now there is one very fast and proven horse that is now 3....War Pass. Now, obviously he has real distance question marks, and if he proves not to be able to go long the Classic races are open to a great many horses. However, Court Vision is still much slower than most of those. Could that change? Absolutely, but I highly doubt his chances are commiserate with what was paid for him.

I agree and I think this is a main part of the reason why horses like Pyro, Tale of Ekati and many others who really haven't done anything dazzling are being considered as serious contenders.

The quality of the Remsen is also a big concern as the three horses who have come back out of it all didn't really look too good.

3rd place finisher Trust N Dustan finished last of six in a N2X at Gulfstream on Saturday as the longest shot on the board.

4th place finisher Big Truck finished fifth of eight in the Hutcheson (G2) at Gulfstream on 1/5 at 9/2

The ill-fated last place finisher Tide Dancer finished seven of eight in the Maryland Juvenile Championship and then broke down in a 25k claimer at Philly.

NT

[The Bid]

Looks like a keyrace. Maybe they should hire you to do their analysis. Its very easy to get caught in a trap with a mediocre horse beating s hit and doing it the right way.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Looks like a keyrace. Maybe they should hire you to do their analysis. Its very easy to get caught in a trap with a mediocre horse beating s hit and doing it the right way.

I did also forget to include how much slower the Remsen was than the Demoiselle.

NT

[The Bid]

I agree with you 100 percent.

Its easy to spend other peoples money. Its not easy to select good horses

Maybe that read differently than how I meant it. I do think its a bad race, and I do think the horse is a phoney, and I do think it was well sold by Winstar

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Bid

I agree with you 100 percent.

Its easy to spend other peoples money. Its not easy to select good horses

Sorry then, I took it the wrong way. I bought How to Interpret Internet Sarcasm for Dummies and it clearly hasn't taken.

NT

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Scipion, yes very similar. I think he ended up being a highpriced lawn mower

LOL... with a free kickstarter of cobra venom

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I agree and I think this is a main part of the reason why horses like Pyro, Tale of Ekati and many others who really haven't done anything dazzling are being considered as serious contenders.

The quality of the Remsen is also a big concern as the three horses who have come back out of it all didn't really look too good.

3rd place finisher Trust N Dustan finished last of six in a N2X at Gulfstream on Saturday as the longest shot on the board.

4th place finisher Big Truck finished fifth of eight in the Hutcheson (G2) at Gulfstream on 1/5 at 9/2

The ill-fated last place finisher Tide Dancer finished seven of eight in the Maryland Juvenile Championship and then broke down in a 25k claimer at Philly.

NT

Agree completely on the Remsen... went to Aqu that day and while I had Court Vision I was not at all impressed with the race. He's definitely a play against in the FoY.

[The Bid]

Most people on the outside looking in will agree that was a badrace. However its the Remsen, it carries a lot of weight eventhough the horses in it were subpar. Hopefully for them he matures into a legitiment Derby contender

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Bid

I agree with you 100 percent.

Its easy to spend other peoples money. Its not easy to select good horses

Maybe that read differently than how I meant it. I do think its a bad race, and I do think the horse is a phoney, and I do think it was well sold by Winstar

Honestly in this case I don't think IEAH even cares that he's probably too slow to win the Derby, he's got a good chance of getting there and that's all they want, to pimp their product and that's obviously the biggest stage to do it on.

On BC day there were more people with IEAH gear on than any other thing... kind of disappointing


Disclaimer... I do like the horse, bet him heavy in the CD race and made a nice score. Just don't like IEAH.

[The Bid]

They market well!

All big name syndicates put horses where they do not belong to pimp the product. Westpoint, Dogwood, they all do it. Dogwood may have the best of the bunch in Blackberry Road, but I think he would like to run on the grass.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

While Court Vision has a spectacular pedigree - and is bred to run forever as well as get better with age - he still has proven to be nothing more than a slowpoke plodder of very modest talent so far.

I haven't heard anyone mention this - but Court Vision is a full sibling to the medicore racehorse Kipling.

Kipling happens to be the sire of IEAH's star Kip Deville.

As obviously mentioned - the Dam of Court Vision is a full to Summer Squall and a half to A. P. Indy

Basically, they bought themselves a multiple graded stakes winner - with a nice stallion pedigree - who just so happens to be not very much horse at all.

[The Bid]

Of course that probably played into them paying a premium

I like Kipling, he really hasnt gotten any decent mares and has been productive, it will be interesting to see what he does with a mare upgrade. I do not like Court Vision, I think hes a crow

[mp3]

I am lost. They bought themselves a well bred graded stakes winner with a stallions pedigree who is a derby contender and they are getting knocked. Somebody help me

[The Bid]

MP3. Hes not a ready made stallion just because of the Remsen. That horse has a lot left to do before that pedigree even enters the equation. What did they pay? Its hard to completely knock the aquisition unless we know the purchase price. If they paid 500k for half its a a good buy. If the valuation was over a million for that horse, then they are on their heels from the jump

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by mp3

I am lost. They bought themselves a well bred graded stakes winner with a stallions pedigree who is a derby contender and they are getting knocked. Somebody help me

I think you just answered your own question. Anytime a wealthy breeding operation sells a horse like you just described it is only because they were offered far more than they thought the horse was worth.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by mp3

I am lost. They bought themselves a well bred graded stakes winner with a stallions pedigree who is a derby contender and they are getting knocked. Somebody help me

They aren't getting knocked......people are being kind actually.

Every 3YO is theoretically a " derby contender " so in that regard I suppose you aren't wrong. However, the general point being made is that his hype is not even remotely justified by his talent.

They didn't do anything clever. They more than likely paid way too much for their share of this horse. Time will tell......but just because a couple of their buys have panned out doesn't make their overall decision making exceptional.

[mp3]

ok. guess you guys have this one figured out already. You must be sharper than them. who are they in this game anyway???dont know what they paid. heard rumors of a 5mm valuation

[The Bid]

5 million for half?

Just because you spend a lot of money on a horse doesnt make you sharp.

[mp3]

only heard rumors, 2.5 for 51m percent

[The Bid]

I heard 5 million, so whether thats half, or 2.5 for half thats too much money for that horse on merit. Although I guess if you can get 51% of a Derby Starter for 2-5 million it beats paying 5-10 million a few months from now.