Ann Coulter: Name-caller

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Someone at school told be she needed a good beehatch slap.

I think I understand what they meant now.

Yeah...right after they kick Mahr in the nuts for his comments about Cheney!

[Danzig]

leave out al franken?....funny, the thread was started to attack an attacker--but when another is named, now let's not go in that direction?! whatever...

calling someone a ****** for instance is completely unnecessary, and certainly does nothing to further dialogue. i can't stand ann coulter, and i really wish they would not give her air time. it's a shame that those with legitimate viewpoints aren't allowed on air, only those who are far right or far left....
and yes, bill mahr is disgusting. to call for the death of an american, just because his thoughts don't jibe with ones own, is despicable.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Did you see what Maher said about Cheney? Because I was watching it live and watched it again last night and I didn't think there was anything wrong with it at all. He did not wish him dead at all. I think people are grasping for straws here.

I had absolutely no problem with what he said. What he said is the sad truth.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I admit that she's far far over the line but as your original link pointed out...there are folks like Al Franken (sp?) on the left who are just as bad. I don't think we'll ever again witness a political contest that focuses on issues rather than people...and that's the sad thing, not the rantings of an individual!

Somer, I don't think Franken ever advocated murdering the leaders of soverign nations and converting their leaders forcibly to Christianity. If you would be so kind, please find specifics of things he's said that you find particularly egregious and I'll be happy to find egregious comments by Coulter and you can let me know which you think is worse. I think you'll find it hard to find anything he's said that compares with what comes out of her mouth. Which, I'm sure, is why she gets more press. Americans love a freak show.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

leave out al franken?....funny, the thread was started to attack an attacker--but when another is named, now let's not go in that direction?! whatever...

calling someone a ****** for instance is completely unnecessary, and certainly does nothing to further dialogue. i can't stand ann coulter, and i really wish they would not give her air time. it's a shame that those with legitimate viewpoints aren't allowed on air, only those who are far right or far left....
and yes, bill mahr is disgusting. to call for the death of an american, just because his thoughts don't jibe with ones own, is despicable.

Danzig, that's not at all what Maher said- it's what the right-wing media wants you to THINK he said. Here's his actual quote:

Maher: But I have zero doubt that if Dick Cheney was not in power, people wouldn’t be dying needlessly tomorrow. (applause)

Scarborough: If someone on this panel said that they wished that Dick Cheney had been blown up, and you didn’t say…

Frank: I think he did.

Scarborough: Okay. Did you say…

Maher: No, no. I quoted that.

Frank: You don’t believe that?

Maher: I’m just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact.

Says conseravtive John Cole on balloon-juice, "Saying that X would happen if Y had happened is not the same thing as saying Y should have happened or you wished Y had happened. There is no way around that, even when you selectively quote and remove the jocular context from the program."

Here's the link to Cole's comments on the subject- good reading:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=7944

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Somer, I don't think Franken ever advocated murdering the leaders of soverign nations and converting their leaders forcibly to Christianity. If you would be so kind, please find specifics of things he's said that you find particularly egregious and I'll be happy to find egregious comments by Coulter and you can let me know which you think is worse. I think you'll find it hard to find anything he's said that compares with what comes out of her mouth. Which, I'm sure, is why she gets more press. Americans love a freak show.

Franken is a dope and I think it's great he's running for senator, afterall he won't have time to act anymore which is a plus. I love actors they think they know better than the american public, over inflated feeling of self worth. Yeah, you're on TV, in movies, or the theatre....who really gives a $#@ what you think.

Now Mahr didn't advocate murder just agreed if Cheney was dead it'd be a good thing.

Coulter is a dope too....I read this board and it's so evident why nothing ever gets done. It's more important being correct than making the world better. No different than the people on here.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Somer, I don't think Franken ever advocated murdering the leaders of soverign nations and converting their leaders forcibly to Christianity. If you would be so kind, please find specifics of things he's said that you find particularly egregious and I'll be happy to find egregious comments by Coulter and you can let me know which you think is worse. I think you'll find it hard to find anything he's said that compares with what comes out of her mouth. Which, I'm sure, is why she gets more press. Americans love a freak show.

I think you are missing my point....folks on both sides routinely are engaging in what I consider hate speech and personal attacks, I'm not sure what could be gained by judging who is "the worst"...it's all bad...shameful and dangerous! In the 50's...if you disagreed with someone, you accused them of being a Communist and lives were destroyed, Dr King was called all sorts of names and his sex life the subject of J Edgar Hoover's interest (which, considering JEH's lifestyle...well, you know), Malcolm X was called a "terrorist" by mainstream media....go back further in history and folks were tortured and murdered cause someone called them a "witch"...the list is long and all of history contains examples of this folly...rather than debate differences and respect same, attack and accuse....worked for Hitler, Pol Pot and apparently the leaders of Sudan and now Iraq. This nation is becoming more divided every day and the rhetoric more and more vicious...there's a storm coming!!!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dr. fager

Franken is a dope and I think it's great he's running for senator, afterall he won't have time to act anymore which is a plus. I love actors they think they know better than the american public, over inflated feeling of self worth. Yeah, you're on TV, in movies, or the theatre....who really gives a $#@ what you think.

Now Mahr didn't advocate murder just agreed if Cheney was dead it'd be a good thing.

Coulter is a dope too....I read this board and it's so evident why nothing ever gets done. It's more important being correct than making the world better. No different than the people on here.

Franken's a writer, not an actor. A comedian, too, but I'd mostly classify him as a writer. I think he's really smart.

Though I don't think the film and TV arts missed Reagan or Gopher all that much. Glad Clint came back, though.

I don't know, Dr. Fager-- I enjoyed reading Somer and DTS's dialogue in this thread. Yes, often people get locked into "I must win" but I often see discussions go in directions I wouldn't expect here. I like to think of the OT board as a 21st century version of the 19th century salon.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I think you are missing my point....folks on both sides routinely are engaging in what I consider hate speech and personal attacks, I'm not sure what could be gained by judging who is "the worst"...it's all bad...shameful and dangerous! In the 50's...if you disagreed with someone, you accused them of being a Communist and lives were destroyed, Dr King was called all sorts of names and his sex life the subject of J Edgar Hoover's interest (which, considering JEH's lifestyle...well, you know), Malcolm X was called a "terrorist" by mainstream media....go back further in history and folks were tortured and murdered cause someone called them a "witch"...the list is long and all of history contains examples of this folly...rather than debate differences and respect same, attack and accuse....worked for Hitler, Pol Pot and apparently the leaders of Sudan and now Iraq. This nation is becoming more divided every day and the rhetoric more and more vicious...there's a storm coming!!!

Somer, I applaud and admire your passion for a kinder world, but I get tired of the hateful, awful, bigoted things flung around by the likes of Coulter and Limbaugh getting dismissed with, "Oh, liberals are just as bad." Because I really don't believe they are-- I don't hear anything coming out of leading liberal commentators that rivals the filth that Coulter spews. And it's probably why she makes more money, because, as I said, America loves a freak show. If you can find things from liberal commentators on the level of Coulter or Limbaugh that equals the things she's said, please post it. (Not the crazy blogger with an audience of six- we'll be here until the end of time if we start doing that). Otherwise, I think Coulter occupies a very special place in the "Making money by promoting hatred" Department.

Regarding the attacks on "Communists" and Martin Luther King-- was it liberals or conservatives that led those movements? Your examples aren't helping the "liberals are just as bad" argument.

Somer, believe it or not, political discourse has been this ugly in the US before-- check out the late 1800's. Whenever the divide between rich and poor gets great, the discourse gets uglier, because the haves must figure out a way to keep the have-nots voting for them. And there's nothing like morality and personal attacks to get people to vote against their own economic interests. From the NYTimes (I'll post the link, too), about the AMT:

<<Meanwhile the stated goal of the original tax is not being met under the successor tax enacted 21 years ago. A far greater number of well-off families still pay only small amounts of tax. More than 41,000 taxpayers with incomes of $200,000 or more in 2003, the last year for which figures are available, paid less than 10 percent of their income in individual income taxes. And the number of untaxed high-income families — once 155 — grew to 2,824.>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/we...ew&oref=slogin

And yet, people on this board claim the wealthy are currently "taking it on the chin" and continute to vote for policies that keep the wealthy paying less tax than I do. Go figure.

Hugs to you for your always thought-provoking, kind posts.

[Downthestretch55]

This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns.
Some comments remind me of an exchange I had with a third grader once.
Q: Did you call --- a name?
A: Johnny did too, so did Max, so did Mary....
Q: Wait a minute, the question was "Did you call --- a name?"
A: Uhhh...fade to silence.

It fascinates that avoidance behavior, once learned, is played again and again.

Bill Mahr said...
Al Franken said...
On and on....

So, back to Ann Coulter....
She laughed about her remarks.
A PA newspaper has withdrawn her column.
Verizon no longer has their sponsorship on her web page.
Mitt, John Mc, and Rudy have spoken against her attacks, labeling them as "offensive".
Many Conservatives have also denounced her words.

This opinion says more:
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news....d=576361&rfi=6

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns.
Some comments remind me of an exchange I had with a third grader once.
Q: Did you call --- a name?
A: Johnny did too, so did Max, so did Mary....
Q: Wait a minute, the question was "Did you call --- a name?"
A: Uhhh...fade to silence.

It fascinates that avoidance behavior, once learned, is played again and again.

Bill Mahr said...
Al Franken said...
On and on....

So, back to Ann Coulter....
She laughed about her remarks.
A PA newspaper has withdrawn her column.
Verizon no longer has their sponsorship on her web page.
Mitt, John Mc, and Rudy have spoken against her attacks, labeling them as "offensive".
Many Conservatives have also denounced her words.

This opinion says more:
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news....d=576361&rfi=6

DTS,
Please don't take my remarks as an attempt to "justify" the ugly rhetoric of Coulter...you know how I feel about her ideology, I'm simply pointing out that falling into the trap of personal attacks and hate speech only clouds the important issues of the day. History will judge Bush, it is counterproductive to spend time attacking him...better to put forth workable solutions to the mess we are in! Attacking those in power is a poor substitute for regaining that power and making meaningful change...I hate seeing folks get sidetracked in this way! Coulter and those like her will self-destruct (as you pointed out above) as long as the discussion doesn't drop to her level...at that point, she actually gains credibility!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Somer, I applaud and admire your passion for a kinder world, but I get tired of the hateful, awful, bigoted things flung around by the likes of Coulter and Limbaugh getting dismissed with, "Oh, liberals are just as bad." Because I really don't believe they are-- I don't hear anything coming out of leading liberal commentators that rivals the filth that Coulter spews. And it's probably why she makes more money, because, as I said, America loves a freak show. If you can find things from liberal commentators on the level of Coulter or Limbaugh that equals the things she's said, please post it. (Not the crazy blogger with an audience of six- we'll be here until the end of time if we start doing that). Otherwise, I think Coulter occupies a very special place in the "Making money by promoting hatred" Department.

Regarding the attacks on "Communists" and Martin Luther King-- was it liberals or conservatives that led those movements? Your examples aren't helping the "liberals are just as bad" argument.

Somer, believe it or not, political discourse has been this ugly in the US before-- check out the late 1800's. Whenever the divide between rich and poor gets great, the discourse gets uglier, because the haves must figure out a way to keep the have-nots voting for them. And there's nothing like morality and personal attacks to get people to vote against their own economic interests. From the NYTimes (I'll post the link, too), about the AMT:

<<Meanwhile the stated goal of the original tax is not being met under the successor tax enacted 21 years ago. A far greater number of well-off families still pay only small amounts of tax. More than 41,000 taxpayers with incomes of $200,000 or more in 2003, the last year for which figures are available, paid less than 10 percent of their income in individual income taxes. And the number of untaxed high-income families — once 155 — grew to 2,824.>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/we...ew&oref=slogin

And yet, people on this board claim the wealthy are currently "taking it on the chin" and continute to vote for policies that keep the wealthy paying less tax than I do. Go figure.

Hugs to you for your always thought-provoking, kind posts.

GR,
Actually, a lot of so-called liberals joined the "commie search" to distance themselves from those further left, Bobby and J. F. Kennedy were in positions of power when the attacks on Dr King took place...hard to believe they couldn't have curbed JEH if they so desired. Again, my point isn't which side is worse...it's that we ALL need to rise above such behavior if we are ever to make changes! I've often said, the only thing I dislike more than liberal ideology is conservative ideology...but both have valid points.

Mahr, Coulter and Franken are all of the same ilk.
They love attention.

Mahr gets his little crowd together so they can all clap for him and make him seem so insightful and sly. Franken was made famous by another major dip on FOX who tried to sue him (how stupid can a man like Bill OReilly be, or it just a bad temper?). And Coulter is pure acid.

All of these people love to create divisions thru attention. They must have an audience and be devisive to have any sort of self worth.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

DTS,
Please don't take my remarks as an attempt to "justify" the ugly rhetoric of Coulter...you know how I feel about her ideology, I'm simply pointing out that falling into the trap of personal attacks and hate speech only clouds the important issues of the day. History will judge Bush, it is counterproductive to spend time attacking him...better to put forth workable solutions to the mess we are in! Attacking those in power is a poor substitute for regaining that power and making meaningful change...I hate seeing folks get sidetracked in this way! Coulter and those like her will self-destruct (as you pointed out above) as long as the discussion doesn't drop to her level...at that point, she actually gains credibility!

Somer,
First, I wasn't attempting to use your remarks incorrectly.
I enjoy exchanging ideas with you. I respect your views, and though I don't agree with all of them, you present them clearly and intelligently.
My comment was regarding all the twists this thread has taken.
Everything you said from "I'm simply"...on, I agree completely.
Consider this, in order to regain power, is it not important to demonstrate that those currently holding it have abused it and no longer deserve it?
To me, that's the first step towards change.

The people that get stuff done face hostile crowds and try and explain themselves in a rational manner. If one really believes they can make a difference in Government, one must attempt to sway the opposition that contains rational people why their different ideas merit consideration.

Ann Coulter plays games and is irrational.
Mahr loves the attention of people who agree with him and find him witty, I dont.
Franken is an attack dog. Wait till he actually attempts to get things done.

[Downthestretch55]

***********NEWS FLASH**********

Ann Coulter stripped!!!!!!!!
YES!
Her site has been stripped of sponsors.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_New...-113316-9302r/

Now, I'm hoping that the rumor I heard about her "relationship" with O J Simpson develops. I've heard he has an attraction to "blonds".
Howard Kurtz reports that Ann has saggy t-tties.
Will these people just grow up and leave OJ and Ann alone for about a half hour???????? Gee whiz!!!!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The people that get stuff done face hostile crowds and try and explain themselves in a rational manner. If one really believes they can make a difference in Government, one must attempt to sway the opposition that contains rational people why their different ideas merit consideration.

Ann Coulter plays games and is irrational.
Mahr loves the attention of people who agree with him and find him witty, I dont.
Franken is an attack dog. Wait till he actually attempts to get things done.

Mes amis, Maher first and foremost is running a COMEDY show. It's political, yes, but it's COMEDY. He'll sacrifice a subtlety to make a joke. He's a comedian; it's his job. Likewise Franken's books- they're political yes, but they're humor books first. Some, "Lying Liars" better than others "The Truth- With Jokes!" (I found that one kind of boring and didn't finish it) I also am confounded by people who expect comedians to be running serious news shows (see Hannity's interview with John Stewart a few years back).

Pgardn, who is Franken attacking for? I'm not aware of him having links to any specific Dem. He seems to be doing the same thing Coulter is, but with less bad language and with more facts to back him up. Michael Moore, sure, one can make a very strong argument that he plays fast and loose with timelines at the VERY least. But Franken? I haven't found anything in his "Lying Liars," anyway, that has been contradicted. (Happy to be wrong, of course, as I prefer having all the facts, too. And as I said, I didn't finish "The Truth" because I thought it was kind of dull)

His chapters on Ann Coulter are pretty funny, actually. As is his account of the O'Reilly lawsuit. He says O'Reilly was upset because the picture of him on Franken's book made him look "blotchy." And yeah, that lawsuit was comedy gold. Who wouldn't have taken advantage of it? Here in NYC, while it was going on, a local hotdog joint put up a banner that said, "We love you Al Franken! To us, you are always 'Vare and Valanced.'!" Almost got me to go buy hotdogs from them, except I don't like hotdogs. (I know, I know, why do I hate our freedom?)

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Mes amis, Maher first and foremost is running a COMEDY show. It's political, yes, but it's COMEDY. He'll sacrifice a subtlety to make a joke. He's a comedian; it's his job.

I humbly disagree. Maher is a comedian who takes himself and his political views seriously. Just like Dennis Miller, just on the opposite side. Neither are funny anymore. And his HBO show is much more of a political discussion than comedy.

Franken. Franken is a destroyer. Once you step over the line and run for office, solutions must be addressed for specific problems. He got into all this by becoming critical, not by saying, I have got ideas that are way better than this and I would like to try them, hear me out. I am dismissing this guy who starts as a destroyer and now must attempt to produce solutions. He never says I got a better way, he just says this is a joke and it aint working. I very much dislike this type of personality. They are not useful in what I do at all. So in my sheltered world of trying to produce solutions to problems, this man is an alien. And not useful as a functioning Government official. How many politicians have come to Al Franken to discuss policy because of his expertise?

[bigrun]

I'm tired of you guys picking on my girl...How bout a little respect...

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I humbly disagree. Maher is a comedian who takes himself and his political views seriously. Just like Dennis Miller, just on the opposite side. Neither are funny anymore. And his HBO show is much more of a political discussion than comedy.

Franken. Franken is a destroyer. Once you step over the line and run for office, solutions must be addressed for specific problems. He got into all this by becoming critical, not by saying, I have got ideas that are way better than this and I would like to try them, hear me out. I am dismissing this guy who starts as a destroyer and now must attempt to produce solutions. He never says I got a better way, he just says this is a joke and it aint working. I very much dislike this type of personality. They are not useful in what I do at all. So in my sheltered world of trying to produce solutions to problems, this man is an alien. And not useful as a functioning Government official. How many politicians have come to Al Franken to discuss policy because of his expertise?

Yeah, but Pgardn, I've seen Maher torpedo a discussion to go for the joke. And yeah, lots of times the show isn't particularly funny, but I also think that's dependent on the guests, don't you? Get three stick-in-the-muds and you're in for an hour of snoozeville (or at least I am, as I like to watch the show, but if it's dull I'm out like a light. Zzzzzzzz....).

Franken's agenda in "Lying Liars" wasn't policy- the theme of the book was the dishonesty in the leaders in right-wing media and the Administration. And it was pretty funny (especially the Coulter chapters). For the love of Pete, he announced he's going to run, what, four weeks ago? And already you're accusing him of not offering solutions? Are you grandfathering the past 10 years and figuring he should have known he was running then so he should have been offering concrete solutions in his political humor books? You're right; why, how dare he not have offered policy suggestions about the energy crisis when he was writing for "SNL" during the Carter years! What a destroyer! He should have known 30 years later he'd decide to run for office!

Again, he's a humorist. His job (until he runs for office) is to poke fun at idiocies going on in government. And yeah, he clearly has a side he thinks is more right than the other. Well, so do Coulter and Limbaugh, only they aren't as verbally adept.

All that said, just because it's been on my mind- I think Coulter is an idiot, but I think the main thrust of her comment is being a wee bit misconstrued. I think she was trying to make a joke about that guy from "Gray's Anatomy" going into "rehab" for making a gay slur. But, not being very verbally adroit, it didn't come off very well. (And I'm still fascinated with how conservatives use insinuations of homosexuality as an insult and no one calls them on it. Nothing worse than being gay! Wha?) Here's the quote:

"I was going to have a few comments on the other Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, but it turns out you have to go into rehab if you use the word '******,' so I—so kind of an impasse, can't really talk about Edwards."

Now, that said, I still think Coulter makes money off spreading hate. Some choice comments:

"[Clinton] masturbates in the sinks."—Rivera Live, Aug. 2, 1999

"God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, 'Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's yours.' "—Hannity & Colmes, June 20, 2001

The "backbone of the Democratic Party" is a "typical fat, implacable welfare recipient"—syndicated column, Oct. 29, 1999

To a disabled Vietnam vet: "People like you caused us to lose that war."—MSNBC, Oct. 11, 1997

"Women like Pamela Harriman and Patricia Duff are basically Anna Nicole Smith from the waist down. Let's just call it for what it is. They're whores."—Salon.com, Nov. 16, 2000

"I think there should be a literacy test and a poll tax for people to vote."—Hannity & Colmes, Aug. 17, 1999

"My libertarian friends are probably getting a little upset now but I think that's because they never appreciate the benefits of local fascism."—MSNBC, Feb. 8, 1997

So, there you have it. She also hates masturbators and disabled vets.

(If she finds masturbation horrific enough to use it as an insult, who does she date? You know what they say-- 90 percent of men say they masturbate and the other 10 percent are lying. )