Penn National arrests

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

hmm, the Feds, an interesting dynamic since its not just a suspension from the local racing board that they can appeal and then just run in anothers name, this may actually scare a few of the cheaters out there if we are talking about jail time.

I would like to hear a lawyers take on arresting Rogers and Webb. Webb was caught injecting something (not sure what) in a horse he had running and the horse was scratched and he got 30 or 60 days from PA racing commission which he served. Rogers was caught by same investigators injecting additional 2 cc of lasix to horse in that day. I believe she is appealing. My question is can a violation of state rules be minor enough to only get relatively light license suspension be serious enough to qualify as Fraud in a Federal court? Especially in the Rogers case where the same med was used by every other horse in the race admittedly at a slightly lower level. I'd think you'd have a tough time convincing a judge that 2 cc of lasix would have enough of an influence being that you'd easily get a 100 credible witness to testify that it would likely have little effect on the results.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would like to hear a lawyers take on arresting Rogers and Webb. Webb was caught injecting something (not sure what) in a horse he had running and the horse was scratched and he got 30 or 60 days from PA racing commission which he served. Rogers was caught by same investigators injecting additional 2 cc of lasix to horse in that day. I believe she is appealing. My question is can a violation of state rules be minor enough to only get relatively light license suspension be serious enough to qualify as Fraud in a Federal court? Especially in the Rogers case where the same med was used by every other horse in the race admittedly at a slightly lower level. I'd think you'd have a tough time convincing a judge that 2 cc of lasix would have enough of an influence being that you'd easily get a 100 credible witness to testify that it would likely have little effect on the results.

So the glove doesn't fit?

[Cannon Shell]

Another legal question would be do you think the Feds are avoiding dealing with the trainer responsibility rule seeing as they arrested Rogers wife and not him? Or would being spouse or him asking her to do it have any effect? Just wondering that if these cases wind up with convictions what would that do to the status of trainer responsibility? I know from my own point of view if I could be guilty of a felony because of a mistake of someone else or because of environmental contamination or an error in the testing lad I'd seriously consider a new line of work. As it is now we are in a tenuous position under the TR rule and I had an issue with a faulty lab before so it does happen.

[randallscott35]

What was the clocker injected with?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

What was the clocker injected with?

Supposedly took cash for phony works.

[MISTERGEE]

from what ive heard over the years published works are mostly a bunch of crap anyway, for varying reasons.
Thanks for letting me know that was Rogers wife, I dont throw out his horses either, Or yours either Cannon, but maybe for different reasons

[Payson Dave]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

from what ive heard over the years published works are mostly a bunch of crap anyway, for varying reasons.
Thanks for letting me know that was Rogers wife, I dont throw out his horses either, Or yours either Cannon, but maybe for different reasons

the great majority of published works are accurate....the published final time of a work however only tells a small part of the story....was it slow early then quick late....what was the gallop out ....how much encouragement was the rider giving the horse....did the horse get out on the turn...lots of other factors other than published final time determine whether it was a good work

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

the great majority of published works are accurate....the published final time of a work however only tells a small part of the story....was it slow early then quick late....what was the gallop out ....how much encouragement was the rider giving the horse....did the horse get out on the turn...lots of other factors other than published final time determine whether it was a good work

Agreed and that should be obvious to the class of handicapper here....at the same time, false times(or works of fiction) should be prosecuted.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Another legal question would be do you think the Feds are avoiding dealing with the trainer responsibility rule seeing as they arrested Rogers wife and not him? Or would being spouse or him asking her to do it have any effect? Just wondering that if these cases wind up with convictions what would that do to the status of trainer responsibility? I know from my own point of view if I could be guilty of a felony because of a mistake of someone else or because of environmental contamination or an error in the testing lad I'd seriously consider a new line of work. As it is now we are in a tenuous position under the TR rule and I had an issue with a faulty lab before so it does happen.

I can't talk specifically about this situation, but I have a hard time believing the Feds would be interested in lasix, minor drug injections or holding someone responsible vicariously. The article says race fixing which I would have to think there is a lot more going on than just a few injections.

In general, the Feds don't move to arrest people in an ongoing scheme until they have enough evidence on them to prosecute them ten times over. They like to compile enough cases against people so that if one develops problems, they have nine other cases that are rock solid. I have to think that this investigation has been ongoing for a long time and they have some serious evidence which almost always includes having the accused on wires and possibly video talking about the criminal scheme they are engaging in.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pointman

I can't talk specifically about this situation, but I have a hard time believing the Feds would be interested in lasix, minor drug injections or holding someone responsible vicariously. The article says race fixing which I would have to think there is a lot more going on than just a few injections.

In general, the Feds don't move to arrest people in an ongoing scheme until they have enough evidence on them to prosecute them ten times over. They like to compile enough cases against people so that if one develops problems, they have nine other cases that are rock solid. I have to think that this investigation has been ongoing for a long time and they have some serious evidence which almost always includes having the accused on wires and possibly video talking about the criminal scheme they are engaging in.

Supposedly they have more coming though with the original group Webb and Rogers in particular it cant be a coincidence that they recently admitted to illegally treating horses.