Who Are You Talking To John?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

The people that care about takeout are probably wagering a much (and I would say the majority) of the wagering dollars.

Right... anyone wagering a serious amount of coin is currently receiving a rebate. I think a lot of jaws would drop if people understood how much handle truly comes from big players. 20% of national handle alone comes from five groups, and you can bet they're getting a pretty sweet rebate.

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

The statement completely ignores long term growth in the game.

I'd be willing to bet, given the chance, that he'd make his point with softer language. That's why I said partially right.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Right... anyone wagering a serious amount of coin is currently receiving a rebate.

This is false, as others have pointed out. Rebates are great, but not everyone has access to them and even in states that allow them, the threshold for getting one varies. More importantly, rebates only reward volume betting, they don't reward winning, which is what the industry should be focusing on - returning more of the pools to winning ticket holders, because that's better in the long term for players of all bankroll sizes.

The quote is offensive, but it's just the latest in a long line of offensive rhetoric about horseplayers by the people in charge of the sport. The notion of sophisticated horseplayers who treat the game with the seriousness of any other investment is completely lost on most of the decision-makers in horse racing. Yet these are the people who are supposed to be looking out for our game when dealing with regressive government officials. It makes me appreciate all the more what NYRA has done in the past year, making an effort to listen to all of its customers and rolling out tangible improvements like the 15% Pick 5 as a result.

It's going to take a lot more than that to reform things though, and as long as people like Walsh are making business decisions based on what a few jadrools in the grandstand say, the battle remains a steeply uphill one.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is false, as others have pointed out. Rebates are great, but not everyone has access to them and even in states that allow them, the threshold for getting one varies. More importantly, rebates only reward volume betting, they don't reward winning, which is what the industry should be focusing on - returning more of the pools to winning ticket holders, because that's better in the long term for players of all bankroll sizes.

The quote is offensive, but it's just the latest in a long line of offensive rhetoric about horseplayers by the people in charge of the sport. The notion of sophisticated horseplayers who treat the game with the seriousness of any other investment is completely lost on most of the decision-makers in this sport. Yet these are the people who are supposed to be looking out for our game when dealing with regressive government officials. It makes me appreciate all the more what NYRA has done in the past year, making an effort to listen to its customers and rolling out tangible improvements like the 15% Pick 5 as a result.

It's going to take a lot more than that to reform things though, and as long as people like Walsh are making business decisions based on what a few jadrools in the grandstand say, the battle remains a steeply uphill one.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is false, as others have pointed out. Rebates are great, but not everyone has access to them and even in states that allow them, the threshold for getting one varies. More importantly, rebates only reward volume betting, they don't reward winning, which is what the industry should be focusing on - returning more of the pools to winning ticket holders, because that's better in the long term for players of all bankroll sizes.

The quote is offensive, but it's just the latest in a long line of offensive rhetoric about horseplayers by the people in charge of the sport. The notion of sophisticated horseplayers who treat the game with the seriousness of any other investment is completely lost on most of the decision-makers in horse racing. Yet these are the people who are supposed to be looking out for our game when dealing with regressive government officials. It makes me appreciate all the more what NYRA has done in the past year, making an effort to listen to all of its customers and rolling out tangible improvements like the 15% Pick 5 as a result.

It's going to take a lot more than that to reform things though, and as long as people like Walsh are making business decisions based on what a few jadrools in the grandstand say, the battle remains a steeply uphill one.

Had to look jadrool up. Thank you, as I'm always looking to improve my vocabulary.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is false, as others have pointed out. Rebates are great, but not everyone has access to them and even in states that allow them, the threshold for getting one varies. More importantly, rebates only reward volume betting, they don't reward winning, which is what the industry should be focusing on - returning more of the pools to winning ticket holders, because that's better in the long term for players of all bankroll sizes.

The quote is offensive, but it's just the latest in a long line of offensive rhetoric about horseplayers by the people in charge of the sport. The notion of sophisticated horseplayers who treat the game with the seriousness of any other investment is completely lost on most of the decision-makers in horse racing. Yet these are the people who are supposed to be looking out for our game when dealing with regressive government officials. It makes me appreciate all the more what NYRA has done in the past year, making an effort to listen to all of its customers and rolling out tangible improvements like the 15% Pick 5 as a result.

It's going to take a lot more than that to reform things though, and as long as people like Walsh are making business decisions based on what a few jadrools in the grandstand say, the battle remains a steeply uphill one.

Joey, anyone betting serious money is getting a rebate. It's not a discussion.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Joey, anyone betting serious money is getting a rebate. It's not a discussion.

K. I don't know how you can say that, but it wasn't the point of my post, so I'll move on.

http://www.drf.com/news/steven-crist...-sparks-handle

Crist piece today on this very issue as it relates to Belmont Pick 5.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

K. I don't know how you can say that, but it wasn't the point of my post, so I'll move on.

http://www.drf.com/news/steven-crist...-sparks-handle

Crist piece today on this very issue as it relates to Belmont Pick 5.

I say it because it's true....and you stated the opposite.

I'm a horseplayer, I am all for lower takeouts, but it's not a simple discussion, just as Steve suggests. Regardless, don't fall under the illusion that serious players aren't getting rebates. They are.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I say it because it's true....and you stated the opposite.

I'm a horseplayer, I am all for lower takeouts, but it's not a simple discussion, just as Steve suggests. Regardless, don't fall under the illusion that serious players aren't getting rebates. They are.

It's dependent on an arbitrary definition of "serious player" and jurisdictional factors should be considered when making that kind of blanket statement. But OK.

[cmorioles]

From the Crist article:

"First, in most cases track operators are powerless to set takeout rates, their hands tied by government regulators and budget officials who are unwilling to experiment with accepting short-term revenue losses in exchange for long-term growth."

Their hands never seem tied when it comes to getting increases.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It's dependent on an arbitrary definition of "serious player" and jurisdictional factors should be considered when making that kind of blanket statement. But OK.

If you wanted to sign-up today with an outlet that provides rebates, you could, regardless of how much you play.