Ride on Normandy Invasion

[Cannon Shell]

I don't think it was a bad ride. He just wasn't good enough

[declansharbor]

I probably missed it somewhere, but was Johnny V's decision on who to ride made because of his relationship with Pletcher or did they think Verrazano had a better chance to win?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

I probably missed it somewhere, but was Johnny V's decision on who to ride made because of his relationship with Pletcher or did they think Verrazano had a better chance to win?

i think it was more due to him riding for pletcher so much-but it's not like verrazano wasn't a good horse.
sometimes you pick right, sometimes not....

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think it was more due to him riding for pletcher so much-but it's not like verrazano wasn't a good horse.
sometimes you pick right, sometimes not....

I think it had everything to do with his relationship with Pletcher. The Derby may be the biggest race of the year, but it's still just one race. He's smart (and classy) to stay loyal.

[ninetoone]

I agree with Cannon...he wasn't winning today. I bet him to win...he simply didn't have enough in the tank & wouldn't have even with a more patient ride.

[NTamm1215]

He moved WAY too soon and cost his mount at least a 2nd place finish in my opinion.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

I agree with Cannon...he wasn't winning today. I bet him to win...he simply didn't have enough in the tank & wouldn't have even with a more patient ride.

I bet Normandy Invasion to win, too, but now that it's all about hoping for a TC for me, I would like to think that right now Orb is just maybe better than everyone else.

(But I'm not saying that very loud, Racing Gods, okay?)

[ateamstupid]

Typical Javier premature move. I too was reminded of his ride on Bernardini.

[Port Conway Lane]

Orb......................... :24.29 :24.22 :23.74 :24.68 :25.97 Rosario J 5.40
Golden Soul .............:24.12 :24.31 :23.72 :25.03 :26.13 Albarado R J 34.50
Revolutionary ...........:24.54 :24.15 :23.72 :25.05 :26.02 Borel C H 6.40
Normandy Invasion... :23.68 :23.12 :23.89 :25.48 :27.34 Castellano J J 9.30
Mylute .....................:24.63 :24.05 :23.48 :25.12 :26.24 Napravnik R 15.30
Oxbow .....................:22.88 :23.41 :24.11 :25.85 :28.29 Stevens G L 24.90
Lines of Battle ..........:23.93 :24.32 :23.87 :25.32 :27.43 Moore R L 31.90
Will Take Charge .......:23.64 :24.00 :24.06 :25.31 :27.95 Court J K 36.40
Charming Kitten ........:23.66 :24.17 :23.45 :26.09 :27.77 Prado E S 33.20
Giant Finish ..............:23.47 :23.58 :24.32 :26.19 :27.60 Espinoza J L 38.60
Overanalyze .............:23.95 :24.22 :23.87 :26.04 :27.09 Bejarano R 16.20
Palace Malice ............:22.57 :22.76 :24.47 :26.53 :28.86 Smith M E 23.70
Java's War ...............:25.31 :23.73 :23.55 :25.22 :27.72 Leparoux J R 21.50
Verrazano ................:22.77 :23.15 :24.56 :26.11 :28.98 Velazquez J R 8.70
Itsmyluckyday ..........:22.96 :23.58 :24.57 :26.09 :29.48 Trujillo E 9.50
Frac Daddy ...............:23.39 :24.27 :24.30 :26.29 :28.76 Lebron V 25.00
Goldencents .............:22.59 :23.53 :24.56 :27.16 :33.48 Krigger K 7.90
Vyjack .....................:22.86 :23.08 :24.71 :27.69 :33.52 Gomez G K 18.80
Falling Sky ...............:22.76 :24.21 :24.66 :26.80 :33.48 Saez L 39.70


Visually it appears as though Normandy Invasion moved too fast when overtaking the four runners in front of him around the far turn. The incremental splits tell a different story. The horses in front of him were backing into the field. It was his 2nd quarter mile where he accelerated too quickly and passed 5 horses to get into 7th place. Only the pacesetter and Vyjack ran faster during that time frame.

It's unreasonable to think he could have slowed his horse down any more than he did in that 4th quarter. The damage had already been done.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

Orb......................... :24.29 :24.22 :23.74 :24.68 :25.97 Rosario J 5.40
Golden Soul .............:24.12 :24.31 :23.72 :25.03 :26.13 Albarado R J 34.50
Revolutionary ...........:24.54 :24.15 :23.72 :25.05 :26.02 Borel C H 6.40
Normandy Invasion... :23.68 :23.12 :23.89 :25.48 :27.34 Castellano J J 9.30
Mylute .....................:24.63 :24.05 :23.48 :25.12 :26.24 Napravnik R 15.30
Oxbow .....................:22.88 :23.41 :24.11 :25.85 :28.29 Stevens G L 24.90
Lines of Battle ..........:23.93 :24.32 :23.87 :25.32 :27.43 Moore R L 31.90
Will Take Charge .......:23.64 :24.00 :24.06 :25.31 :27.95 Court J K 36.40
Charming Kitten ........:23.66 :24.17 :23.45 :26.09 :27.77 Prado E S 33.20
Giant Finish ..............:23.47 :23.58 :24.32 :26.19 :27.60 Espinoza J L 38.60
Overanalyze .............:23.95 :24.22 :23.87 :26.04 :27.09 Bejarano R 16.20
Palace Malice ............:22.57 :22.76 :24.47 :26.53 :28.86 Smith M E 23.70
Java's War ...............:25.31 :23.73 :23.55 :25.22 :27.72 Leparoux J R 21.50
Verrazano ................:22.77 :23.15 :24.56 :26.11 :28.98 Velazquez J R 8.70
Itsmyluckyday ..........:22.96 :23.58 :24.57 :26.09 :29.48 Trujillo E 9.50
Frac Daddy ...............:23.39 :24.27 :24.30 :26.29 :28.76 Lebron V 25.00
Goldencents .............:22.59 :23.53 :24.56 :27.16 :33.48 Krigger K 7.90
Vyjack .....................:22.86 :23.08 :24.71 :27.69 :33.52 Gomez G K 18.80
Falling Sky ...............:22.76 :24.21 :24.66 :26.80 :33.48 Saez L 39.70


Visually it appears as though Normandy Invasion moved too fast when overtaking the four runners in front of him around the far turn. The incremental splits tell a different story. The horses in front of him were backing into the field. It was his 2nd quarter mile where he accelerated too quickly and passed 5 horses to get into 7th place. Only the pacesetter and Vyjack ran faster during that time frame.

It's unreasonable to think he could have slowed his horse down any more than he did in that 4th quarter. The damage had already been done.

--Dunbar

[philcski]

The move might have been a little early but I also think Tapits don't want to go 10F. His AWD is high but he's also only had 1 winner going 10F and Tapit also stopped at about the same time in the Derby.

Want a really bad trouble line? Watch the overhead and take a look at Will Take Charge. Moves in concert with Orb, actually appears to be moving a little better than him for a bit around the turn, then Verrazano backs up into him and Orb takes the outside line, Court tries to dive inside but it's too late and has to pull up and just flat out stops COLD. Would have been in the super for sure and might have even challenged for 1st/2nd. Hats off to Lukas for having both horses run really well when there was a lot of buzz that both were doing poorly.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I don't think it was a bad ride. He just wasn't good enough

Chuck

The game has all these tech advances, albeit for the fans, over the last few years with innovations like Trakus to make a race easier to follow. Is there nothing on these massive scoreboards for these jocks to see or in some way hear the splits for the big races on a day like yesterday.

Is a glance at 22.1, 45.1 or 109.4 on these huge tote boards completely out of the question given the chaos of a 19 horse field. I realize the jocks are supposed to have a decent clock in their heads or does it not matter once a suicide pace is set you can't slow'em down and expect to kick it in gear at the top of the stretch. The horse doesn't exactly come with a gear shift.....

[cmorioles]

He clearly moved too early, not sure how that is even a debate. I'm sure judging whether a pace is fast is suicidal is not an easy thing to do, but he judged wrong. At worst, he was the second best horse in the race.

[tjfla]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

He clearly moved too early, not sure how that is even a debate. I'm sure judging whether a pace is fast is suicidal is not an easy thing to do, but he judged wrong. At worst, he was the second best horse in the race.

Exactly,Castellano saw Oxbow go and went with him. He waits another second or 2 and he is 2nd easy.

Golden Soul I think killed everyone's ticket. I had him 3/4 on all of mine

[NTamm1215]

These are his updated PPs after yesterday. If you're arguing that he didn't move too early, you're wrong.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

These are his updated PPs after yesterday. If you're arguing that he didn't move too early, you're wrong.

You know I agree, but PPs at 10f look a little different and can be deceiving. You are shown the 4f/1m instead of 4f/6f calls.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

These are his updated PPs after yesterday. If you're arguing that he didn't move too early, you're wrong.

I don't agree that you can say without reservation that it cost him 2nd.

He is out of a Boston Harbor mare. IMO he can't get 1 1/4. He was almost 9 lengths behind a suicidal pace at the half and still 5 lengths back at the 3/4's. If the speed horses last a little longer than no one is saying anything about moving too early. Let's not forget that he was on the rail and would have been directly behind the horses who finished up the track if he hadn't moved outside. The rest of his trip outside of the supposed premature move was almost perfect.

You'll get a chance to watch him lose ground again in the stretch in the Belmont

[Cannon Shell]

I hear now that he won't be running again until Saratoga. Maybe ever.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I don't agree that you can say without reservation that it cost him 2nd.

Of course you can't say it without reservation. But using breeding as the reason is laughable.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I don't agree that you can say without reservation that it cost him 2nd.

He is out of a Boston Harbor mare. IMO he can't get 1 1/4. He was almost 9 lengths behind a suicidal pace at the half and still 5 lengths back at the 3/4's. If the speed horses last a little longer than no one is saying anything about moving too early. Let's not forget that he was on the rail and would have been directly behind the horses who finished up the track if he hadn't moved outside. The rest of his trip outside of the supposed premature move was almost perfect.

You'll get a chance to watch him lose ground again in the stretch in the Belmont

With all due respect, this is nonsense.